2nd MBBS PG Preperation Guidance what to do dr.kay?

hi dr.kay,
i am a second year student. i have completed one term of second mbbs. have completed two clinical terms for medicine and am in the second posting of surgery. apart from the theory lectures on patho micro pharmac fm and psm we are also having a series of lectures of theory subjects of surgery, medicine and skin (incl. in third mbbs).
our college did not have a system of pg entrance exam till now. since it has been started from this year i need to change my study pattern and approach to study. i do not have enough senior guidance as those people have got their seats on merit basis. i also want to compete on all india level and for other colleges. i read your article on the link provided by u and that really gave me a lot of idea. now still because of conflict with the ongoing pattern of teaching in my college i am not able to draw or create a proper study plan.
i also had some problems in studying and understanding the concepts of anatomy ..actually i took time in knowing the way to study that subject . although i scored great in the university exam for first mbbs i feel that my knowledge is not proper . i wanted to brush things up as the concepts are still fresh in my mind. i read chaurasia, ib singh for anat , guyton(not complete but most of the topics) for physio and vasudevan(for biochem).
i spend a lot of time in college. so i dont know how and what to study in the little time.
i have not started but am willing to start harrison and api, love and bailey(started readin the topics in lec), das for clinical surgery(reading), mcleod and golwalla an clinical medicine(read whatever i the last two terms).
could u please tell me where do i stand right now as a student . how do i go further what all to stress upon at this juncture.. thanks...

Reply

Dear Ripa,

You remind me a lot of my classmate from Medical College who used to spend a lot of time reading as comparetd to others. She was the most knowledgeable person in most subject and it was mainly due to hard work. She is now doing her preferred PG course.

Having said that, I don't think you should be worrying about PG entrance preps right now. This is the time when you should actively get interested in work at the hospital. Seeing patients, interacting with them, case-taking etc. Those are the essential things now.

Along with that, you can learn theory. But only after you do your work at the hospital. Otherwise, everything will go in vain.

When you are learning theory, just make sure that you understand what you study. Try co-relating what you study with what you see in the hospital. Right now that is all that you need.

Cheers

Dr. Kay

thanks

Get other opinions

Ripa,

I don't want to confuse you. I adopted the strategy that I mentioned in my previous post. But there are a lot of others who think that what I said is 100% crap and that you should concentrate on Entrances even during Second MBBS.

I don't know what to say. If it helps you, the studious friend that I mentioned is very very good in clinics and case-taking and has loads of practical knowledge. Right now, she is doing her favored PG course as well. I too, have gained a lot of practical knowledge. I will be doing my favored PG course soon.

A lot of the 'others' also might be doing their favored PG courses. But they still lack the practical prowess.

Decide yourself.

Cheers

Kris

to Dr.Kay

hello sir
as u said that ug students should concentrate more on understanding and gaining practical knowledge,then sir in ur opinion whats the right time when we should start consulting mcq books?

In MY Opinion

we should start consulting mcq books......... Once You are able to do the following

1. Start an iv drip in 30 seconds.
2. Differentiate between Bronchial and Cardiac Asthma
3. Pacify a mother of a 1 year old child in HER own language when her child has febrile fits
4. Get consent for LSCS with Sterilisation from a lady's Mother - in Law if the husband is not available
5. Suture a 5 cm Skull Laceration in 5 minutes
6. Write a proper informed consent for a case of Acute Abdomen
7. Explain Diabetic Diet........

Though 1, 2, 5 may make you a good CLINICIAN........... you will be a SUCESSFUL PRACTITIONER only if you are able to do 3, 4, 6, 7.............

After you are sure that you are able to do the above list (not exhaustive)...... you can take your MCQ books

hi Bruno,

very precise and excellent answer. actually students first try to become a good clinician, then everything else.

Yeah... Before becoming Good Clinicians. One should become a Good Communicator and a Good Counsellor.........

How good your Intestinal Anastomosis (or # Reduction) depends on how well you work during your PG Period.....

But that is not what is enough.....

How good your practise "blooms" depends on 90% communication and 10 % technical Skills........

You can get Technical Skills during your PG

But Communication Skills are to be learnt FROM THE BEGINNING........ That means the day you step into your Clinical Wards.....

In My Opinion

Your Practise does not depend on you doing a LSCS in 16 minutes or Splenectomy in 35 minutes ... How good a practise you have (translated into how good a name you have and HOW MUCH YOU EARN !!) ..... depends 90 % on your communication skills......................

Those who want to Have a Good Name (and Earn More !!) develop your clinical and communicative (and administrative as well) skills.. right from the beginning...........

On the other hand....... if you going to be satisfied with a Postgraduation and publishing papers.... you can IGNORE TALKING TO PATIENTS.......

Or if you want to have a "flourishing practise" (and earn lot of money and fame.... the key skill is talking to the patients.. talking to the attenders and managing your subordinate staff

WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IN SECOND AND THIRD MBBS IS FOR YOU TO DECIDE !!!!!!!


If you not able to understand what I am telling (or not willing to understand)............... Just take a good look at the doctors in your locality... Try to find who has a good name and who earns more.............. I am sure that it will be related VERY LITTLE to the technical prowess or depth of academical knowledge....... You will then yourself realise what is important and WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT and WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT

hi dr.bruno,
thats precisely what i did in my last three clinical postings but a sudden wave of pressure by my seniors for pg entrances confused me about what is important for me at this stage .i still have not done suturing or placing an iv line etc... thats because still i cant get over the fear that i may hurt the patient and put him into some complication. the thought scares me. in fact this is one of my major problems.. but i am developing the skill of taking proper history doin good examination and understanding patients of varied psyche ... is all that u mentioned in the clinics enough at the mbbs level what all i should try and learn doing practically from now.. people say that u learn all that in internship but some of my classmates have already tried doin all such procedures.. y dont i gain the courage?could u help me in this regard ..
well, right now i have decided to learn the topics currently being taken properly understanding them so that i am thorough with theory attend my regular clinics and relax !is this proper ? i feel so need ur opinon too..
thanks ,
ripa

Hi friend,

I personally believe what Bruno told is TRUTH,WHOLE THE TRUTH,NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

Just go back to your Bailey and Love, take page SAYINGS OF THE GREAT. It is one among first 10pages,(just after preface).

Please read what given in it, with your heart.(not just with bare eyes).

I want to stress one quoting by Sir William olser.

"To study the phenomenon of disease without books is to sail an uncharted sea, WHILE TO STUDY BOOKS WITHOUT PATIENTS IS NOT TO GO TO SEA AT ALL."

Okay bye

These along with Reading X Rays and ECG can be developed at Final Year........

The One skill THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT and THAT HAS TO BE STARTED IS TALKING TO THE PATIENT

By "Talking" I mean

1. Getting History from the patient
+
2. Counselling the patient........

Many diseases can be diagnosed by talking (patient talking to the doctor) .... THis you will know, but there is another side of the coin.... Many diseases can be CURED by TALKING (Doctor talking to the patient.... That is equally important).....

But I would like to add one more thing

I am not suggesting against reading MCQ oriented topics..... What I am trying drive home is the message that

Solving MCQs in addition to Proper learning of clinical, "social" skills is the need for MBBS Students .... You need to grasp the concepts at your undergraduate stage...... FOr MCQs you need both Concepts and Facts.... !!!! Make your MBBS for learning the concepts...... and The latter part of Internship for learning facts.......

CONCEPTS can be learned from TEXT BOOKS and proper Ward Work !!!
FACTS can be learned from MCQ BOOKS !!!

but

Solving MCQs at the cost of Clinical and Practical Skills will make you a doctor with Master Degree (or superspeciality) from a Prestigious Institute ........... but once you come out of the institute you will be left without patients !!!

Relax

Hey,

About not suturing or not putting an IV line...

I started this in my 3rd year. I was more scared than you to start it I guess. But you have to find some courage from within. And no matter what you do, you have to start some day and on the first few occasions, things won't be smooth.

Chill it, and start doing things when you get the next opportunity without worrying too much.

Okay?

Cheers

Dr. Kay

hi dr.kay,
thanx u made me much more comfortable. i guess with time i will get over this fear... experience will give me maturity and that will give me confidence to perform.. i mean i never thought when i was in school that i would be able to dissect a human cadaver but i did it in my first year and gradually it became a part of my routine and i was not at all conscious bout it... hey thanx a lot!-ripa

fst year student of mbbs.question to dr kay?

sir
i hv just taken admission in fst year mbbs. pls help me how to prepare
myself for aippg & to be a better doctor

Premature?

Hey,

This is to every medico in their first/second MBBS -

Aspiring to do well in AIPGE is laudable even when you are relatively young in your Medical career. Aiming to prepare for the entrances is good as well.

BUT

Please make sure that you do your MBBS course well enough (in the orthodox regular way) to be able to become good clinicians in the future.

If you aren't getting the point, let me straighten it further...

Don't start out on your MBBS career thinking only about entrances. I have heard a lot about recent batches of students, especially from North India, who don't give a damn about their basic MBBS course. Instead, they prepare for the entrances. That too, without doing any ward work. Even during internship.

This is not a good trend.

Do your work. Study along with it.

Now, to the first MBBS guys specifically - you could do justice to your entrance preps by making sure that your Physiology (Ganong), Biochemistry (Harper) and Anatomy (Chaurasia, Dutta, Cunningham) studies are thorough.

Cheers

Dr. Kay

excellent !!

This advice is something excellent !! I do in totallity conceptsof Bruno and Chachoch !!

I rembember when in my 3 rd year I used to go and work in the wards till abt 2 a.m. and learning a lot.. It gives a real insight to what is to be learnt by a practitioner clinically... I would do all odd jobs including the enema stuff prior to operation which is the job of the nurses only to get PR findings!

practical working also helped me to forget the world outside and concentrate on the job.. I 'm still an intern and now I have joined as assisting demonstrator in Anatomy only to have " Quality timepass "

Re: fst year student of mbbs.question to dr kay?

hi..i am a student of final mbbs..and still facing problem while studying surgery as it needs very clear conception about anatomy....we got very few months as the first mbbs was abruptly preponed....so there is much deficiency in the subjects. what i want to say is that....just concentrate on the basic subjects now....these r the pillars for the clinical subjects....solving mcqs without knowing the subject wont help.

u will get a lot of time later....first think about the four mbbs exams....and enrich ur clinical knowledge.i am not discouraging u....i wish i got more time to study anatomy.all the best to u.

Re: fst year student of mbbs.question to dr kay?

or[/quote]

hi..i am a final year student and will appear in my finals in jan....i still face many difficulties while studying surgery as it needs very clear concept in anatomy....we got very few months in first mbbs due to abrupt preponement of the exams....so couldnt cover everything in 3 subjects.

what i want to say ..u must concentrate on these 3 sub first as these r the pillars of the clicnical subjects....and enrich ur knowledge.solving mcqs without knowing the sub wont help.u wil get lot ot time later to start ur pg prep.i am not discouraging u....i still wish i got more time to study anatomy. :shock:

hi

hey frds
well my self is also ug, in 3rd year mbbs, and i think personally that we should concentrate on our concept rather than concentrating on pg exams. if ur concepts are clear and if u have good knowlege then ur entrance exams will have no problems at all. and ripa i read ur msgs y were u so confused and y had u so much fear? well brunno is great i know he wil surely make u fearless. k nothing else to say
have a nice time!!

well everyone has freedom to hold an opinion and i beg to differ from Dr kay and Bruno. Actually U guys have strayed away from the simple question about how to prepare for PG in 2nd prof and started to do moral policing and giving advices and ur own opinions. Well whatever u guys said with due respect was helpful and good for u guys and maynot be true for all the rest.
Putting an i/v line or suturing will never get u a pg seat and whatever u do in mbbs will go in vain if u dont get to do it anyfurther as u may not have a pg seat, so i say that putting stress on these things is actually totally untrue and one may get many chances in life to learn and spoil what he has learnt ,so lets not put emphasis on these things.
As for 2nd proffers i will say read all ur books through and through and read as much as u ca do with free mind and interest , make concepts clear and try to corelate things and do go to wards and learn whatever ur tought and come back and read and co-relate. And if u can ask ur seniors that which topics are important for PG and read them thoroghly and preferably from as many good books u can.
And the end niether i/v lines nor only hard work will give u a seat and in the end u should learn to leave things to destiny.
IN THE END KAY AND BRUNO U SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT U GUYS ENJOY A VERY REVERED STATUS ON THIS SITE AND U SHOULD REALLY MEASURE UR EVERY WORD AND NOT BE JUDGMENTAL ABOUT THINGS WHICH U STILL HAVE NOT SEEN.
BEST OF LUCK GUYS

I have already told what to do for PG Preparation in First MBBS, what to do for PG Preparation in First Clinical, what to do for PG Preparation in Second Clinical, what to do for PG Preparation in Final Year, what to do for PG Preparation in Internship and what to do for PG Preparation after Intership.

In fact Chachoch has written an excellent article.... Just use the search to find that

More over neither me nor Dr Kay FORCED you to have our ways........... What we write is what we had followed (or what other successful people had done). It is up to the reader to follow that or ignore that........ or better still TO MODIFY WHAT WE SAY IN ACCORDANCE WITH YOUR SITUATION AND NEEDS

Chachoch (Dr.Kay) is a topper in AIPG 2004 and has chosen MS Ortho in Bombay.....

I have qualified in AIPG, I have qualified in my State PG, I had been selected by UPSC, CMC Vellore, I had been selected by TNPSC and now working as Assistant Civil Surgeon in Tamil Nadu Medical Services

Well..... I really don't understand what you mean "U have not seen"................ Can you please elaborate.........

Agreed......... who told you that you will get a PG Seat based on your clinical skills

Agreed......
But
What ever you learn in your PG will go in vain if you don't know how to do it yourself and you are depended on your paramedical

To Repeat, you need not have MCh Vascular Surgery to Start IV Line.............

Even if you are DM Cardio and know 232 indications for Atenolol and 456 contraindications for enalapril, your practice will be ZERO if you are not to TREAT a patient.............. and TREATMENT includes NOT JUST WRITING IN YOUR PRESCRIPTION PAD (or case sheet)........ There is some thing more than that in "Treating" a patient.

My humble request......... just because you are TOTALLY IGNORANT of some thing, don't spread the news that they DON'T EXIST

You can get many chances to READ MCQ Books.......... but you won't get chances for Practical Experience........... You you have to put emphasis on "these" things for the simple reason that you can have your BHATIA and Salgunan any time in your life.......... When are you going to have an hospital setup (like you have in government medical colleges) after you finish your MBBS

Excellent

Agreed

Agreed.....................

The PG Seat ALONE will not get you patients !!!!

:roll:

hi
i completely agree with bruno and dr kay.

well u see my dear dreamer doesnot know that in my college, the merit medicine pg's donot know how to read ecg's becoz they didnot learn it while doing internship and they were busy reading for pg entrance, how disgusting!!!!

hey dreamer donot follow if u think bruno is wrong

i am in support of bruno. i am a strong belever that one should do right things at right moments and that our destiny has already has been chalked out, its only a matter of time that we know our destiny. s

so my friends doing first or second prof concentrate on theory very well and as soon as u finish ur university exam do the mcqs of those subjects.........

We believe that in 2nd MBBS it would be better to deal with clinics properly, along with some guided PG Prep : Meaning do some MCQs, try to mark your books etc

Also it is my opinion that clinics and practical knowledge are better gained in MBBS rather than internship when you have an added pressure of PG,

Otherwise circumstances, ability and opportunity of learning for all are different and you yourself are the best judge.

NOT BE JUDGMENTAL ABOUT THINGS WHICH U STILL HAVE NOT SEEN meant that while doing ut pg or 2-3 yrs after that doesnt give anyone the authority to comment that the best and only time to learn clinicals is during MBBS , it will be known only when u become senior or old enough.
I Agree that everyone has to make a choice of choosing the best way for himself , and thats very nice of u for making it clear.
I respect bruno's and dr. kay's suggestions , but i had different opinion on some which i expressed and i still feel that sometimes ur opinion become fixed and rigid and they look more like guidelines ( its my personal opinion )
And to end well i am also one of successful candidate in aiims , pgi and aipge 2004 ,so i thought i can also share my opinion.I humbly except i may be wrong and i am open for discussion or suggestions[/quote]

clinical skills

hi everybody
can the seniors plz cite out the basic clinical skills that a ug student should and can comfortably learn during the mbbs period.