important for all medical : thinking of coming to the UK

Discussion in 'Plab 1 and 2 forum' started by FAQ- daydreamer, Dec 22, 2004.

  1. http://www.londondeanery.ac.uk/spectraining/FoundationProgrammes/JointStatement.pdf

    or Following is the cut pasted text of the above document.

    ===============================================

    The following information is important for all medical
    graduates thinking of coming to the United Kingdom
    to take part 2 of the PLAB examination.
    1. Competition for House Officer and Senior House Officer posts in
    the UK is currently very high.

    2. 36% of overseas graduates who passed PLAB part 2 in June 2003
    were still unemployed 6 months later. 4% were unemployed at one
    year.

    3. There are on average 210 applicants for each junior hospital doctor
    advertisement in the UK. Eight recent advertisements have
    attracted over 1000 applicants.

    4. Because of the very large numbers of applicants, varying,
    sometimes random, methods of selection are used to shortlist
    candidates.

    5. There are on average 400 applicants for each House Officer
    advertisement. Graduates who have not completed their House
    Officer posts (or equivalent) in their home country may find it very
    difficult indeed to obtain a post in the UK.

    The UK welcomes and will always welcome overseas graduates.
    However, it does not wish them to be disadvantaged because of lack of
    information on the current very high level of competition for junior posts
    and the long periods of time that they may spend unemployed.

    This information is issued on behalf of the Academy of Medical Royal
    Colleges, the Department of Health and the General Medical Council; it
    is accurate as of December 2004.
    Up-to-date details on unemployment and competition for junior doctor
    posts are available on http://www.bmjcareers.com/juniorcomp and
    http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/default.htm.
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    see this data

    this is from BMJ Careers website, showing their analysis of how many applicants are per post.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What do the figures mean?

    The tables show that there is considerable competition for all junior posts. For example in medicine (see Table 1), an “average graduate” applying for an SHO post will have to send off 256 application forms before obtaining an SHO post, and 425 applications if looking for a PRHO post. These SHO numbers were obtained from analysing 63 advertisements and the PRHO numbers from 7 advertisements. The number of applicants per post is less than the number of applicants per advertisement as many advertisements are for two or more vacancies.

    Competition is greatest for posts in Wales; and least in London and Scotland and very low in Northern Ireland (although we have information from only 5 advertisements in N Ireland: see Table 2). Posts in medicine, A&E, and surgery seem to be more sought after than posts in ENT, O&G and anaesthetics

    Table 1

    Five advertisements attracted more than 1000 applicants and 57 more than 500. Five trusts could not give the total number of applicants as only the first 80 to 250 applicants received were considered. The remaining applications were discarded even though received before the closing date.

    These tables should be read in conjunction with the GMC’s own survey of IMGs one year after passing PLAB available from http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/default.htm. This survey showed that three quarters of IMGs had registered with the GMC and therefore been successful in obtaining employment within six months of passing PLAB but for many this may have been a locum post.

    From next August accredited PRHO posts will be subsumed within two-year foundation posts. Foundation posts are not all advertised in the BMJ and many are only advertised on the Regional Postgraduate Deans' websites. It is hoped that we will be able to obtain and publish the figures for competition for these posts shortly. The closing date for many but not all foundation posts for August 2005 has passed.

    Information and application forms can be downloaded from the individual Postgraduate Institute's internet site. Their addresses, and other details on foundation posts, are listed on http://www.mmc.nhs.uk/deaneries.asp

    We hope the figures shown are useful to readers. If nothing else they show that if you are finding it difficult to obtain a post you are by no means alone. Many others are finding it equally difficult and your situation is much more likely to reflect the random way in which shortlisting has to take place when such large numbers apply for posts rather than be due to any deficiency in your CV.

    Please feel free to comment on any aspect of these tables; their contents or presentation. All feedback would be most welcome. Please address to simon.land@rcplondon.ac.uk or rmacdonald@bmj.com.
  4. THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT THE SELECTION PROCESS

    Agree, with the above stats. I spoke with the gmc before and one registration directorate said that "they are not responsible for the pretty bad job situation in the NHS". "We cannot discourage any overseas doctors to come but they do have to consider the job situation at present because there is a long going through the sytem now that there are so many applicants for PLAB".

    I say that they are responsible and ought to have the plab exam only every 1 year. Atleast this induces a scheme where all the succesful applicants should be then be legible to apply for the foundation programs which we are not at presently. The issue is about fairness being provided to overseas doctors instead of dilvering discrimination to them and allowing onlt local graduates to apply through really what is the only way of applying for an NHS post;that is through the local deaneries and university matching schemes. We at present are allowed into the country with open arms and are being prevented from even applying for the hospital jobs let alone even getting one. The ones who get the jobs get the worst vacancies which none of the local gradutes won't when the selection process has run twice to fill the gaps. Is this Fair ?
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm sorry to say but this is the story everywhere...Ireland,New Zealand,US,Canada......but you have docs going to these places in herds.....some make it some do not.Its competitive.....thats what a doctor's life all about.The weaker ones will pull out and the stronger ones will get a foot hold.Survival of the fittest,I say!!
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Indian doctors are the most competitive and despite so many going to UK a big portion of them get jobs.Ofcourse quite a few don't but they are the minority.Indian docs have time again proved their worth in UK hence the preference.Don;t worry about not enough jobs etc..
  7. Devadi

    Devadi Guest

    Wake up at least now and reassess the situation!

    Dear Friends,

    I could not help reading through all your comments. Geetanjali especially has posted quite a few, by virtue of being an experienced one at this PLAB game! As she has pointed out, being on a spouse visa , she has tried everything , including the "illegal" work and all and says that its not worth it.

    I have been here in the UK for past 8 months. Cleared PLAB 2 first go, narrowly missed clearing MRCP Part 1 in May, and got my GMC registration 1 week back......also I got it cancelled the very next week.

    WHY?......

    Because I realised what an idiot I had been all along.

    True geetanjali, that the UK govt never called us to work in NHS, and we all came of our own accord. The GMC also has very graciously stated that they have given enough warning on their website saying that they are not promising any jobs to PLAB passers. The RCP working committee has recently in Feb published the first genuine survey results on the difficulties of getting a Junior doctors job in the NHS. The foundation program is a blatant attempt to change the postgraduate education in the NHS, with more advantages to the UK graduates.

    Where does all this lead us?.....I came to UK , because I thought I could do my postgraduation training and in the process also earn some good money. In the passing...I have lost about Rs. Three lakhs down the drain.
    No regrets.
    I have also lost 8 months of precious time away from work as a doctor.I regret that very much. 4 months of clinical attachment in UK.....I feel happy for the experience it has given me in respiratory medicine and diabetology.

    And now, in another 15 days I am returning to India, happy to be reunited with my wife whom I married 11 months back but spent only 3 months with.

    Did I run away from the duties towards my country which spent money on my medical education? in search of wealth in the foreign lands?
    CERTAINLY NOT. I served for 5 long years in the Indian armed forces in tough field postings before I came to UK and have given more than what many of my compatriots from back home have given to their country.

    Yet where does this lead to........

    As far as I am concerned , in UK, the government, the NHS and GMC operate on a demand and supply basis. When there is a greater demand, they will even make a GADHA their BAAP....and when the supply outstrips demand, they will start to play choose and filter! What your individual aspirations are their least concerns....and rightly so. Why should they bother about whether you are living in a shithole in eastham, surviving on the food given in the temple, and sending 20 application per day to NHS trusts who have double standards for every selection and shortlisting.

    I have been fortunate, I had friends from my college batch here to extend support. I lost my savings from my previous job in this job hunt, but still go home determined to get through the Indian PG exams. Even if I do not clear them, I will still be working as a doctor........not as some waiter, store counter clerk or anything else than the profession that I studied hard for. AND MOST importantly, I will be paying taxes to MY COUNTRY which will at least go towards MY COUNTRY'S revenue. Not into the hands of another country which is not even bothered to try to sort the situation for the 6000 odd doctors languishing in Eastham and the rest of UK.

    GMC can say a thousand excuses, but it still doesnt absolve them of responsibility in the PLAB scandal.

    Thanks very much for patiently reading thru all this. Make up your own minds about the Foundation program, Modernising medical careers and all that, which is very well for the UK graduates, but surely sounds the death knell for most of the overseas doctors.

    Recognize where you stand?

    1. Post graduate from overseas with MRCP/MRCS part 1? Give it your best...you have better chances than others at getting into a training post. But look at long run prospects in UK!

    2. Graduate from overseas with above average marks in Final year, narrowly missed PG Entrance exam back home?...........wouldnt you be better off with a PG back home?.....No? Fine , then join the 6500 other doctors who cleared PLAB 2 last year and try your luck.

    3. Graduate from overseas with average marks in Final year, and not very confident of making it in home country PG entrance exam?.....come on guys, be realistic, if its difficult back home , what made you think it was going to be any easier here in UK! If you still want to try your luck....go ahead, because there are some guys , fresh from college, who have been extremely lucky here. I know a guy who last month passed PLAB 2 and phoned a consultant for attachment. He was given a 2 month locum instead........But that means you are putting yourself at the mercy of luck and not on your hardwork and efforts.


    IF I SOUND DISCOURAGING...SORRY, BUT THAT IS NOT MY INTENTION.
    my only aim is to put the situation in the right perspective.
    The final decision is yours.

    In the NHS , they insist that the patient must make an informed decision!
    FUNNY! Because as a PLAB candidate you were never given that choice.

    I am giving you all this information for a reason......MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION FRIENDS.

    BEST OF LUCK,

    Devadi
  8. Re: Wake up at least now and reassess the situation!

    thank you devadi, all ur words are true . hope people will understand it.
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    SECRETS HOW TO GET THE FIRST JOB

    Job situation is bad I agree but let me ask you one thing.

    Of the so called 6000 doctors jobless in the UK for one year. I can assure you that lots of them just sit at home and keep on sending applications.

    To get a job in the UK these are the ways

    1. Talk Talk Talk

    The problem with us indian doctors is that we stand in a corner . Not talking to anyone . You get to know people only by talking to them. The relationships that you build will take you a long way. Be in good terms with the reg when you do your attachment. Ask them to iron out your CV.Speak to the consultant who gave you the attachment for a locum. BE BLUNT. Tell them your situation and ask them directly whether they can help. They wouldnt have given you an attachment if they hadnt liked you anyway.WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE ANYWAY. The maximum they will say is sorry and if you are lucky you get a job

    2. Contacts

    Get out of your dream world. So you think youare goping to get your first job by sending an application. NO NO NO. Extremely unlikely i would say
    You are more likely to get your first job through contacts at the hospital

    3. Meet People

    Medical staffing , Consultants of the hospitals where you are planning to apply for a job. So you think it is expensive travelling around . Use megabus . I went from London to Glasgow for 5 pounds

    4. Personality Counts.

    Be Impeccable in your manners. Greet people, Do not forget to hold the doors open for the people behind you, Be well groomed. This place is not like India where you can get by with a 3 day growth on your face , shabbily dressed . This is another country and you need to integrate.

    5. Clinical Attachments .

    I know people who have done 4 months clinical attachment in one hospital and did not get a job. This is one of the worst things you can do. 1 month should be neough to know whether they will give you a job or not.



    6. Be nice to everyone (even those who dont speak to you)

    I had once helped a lady struggling to carry some files to her car. They had fallen down and she was trying pick all of them up. And voila when I WENT TO MEDICAL STAFFING THE NEXT DAY i found that she was the chief medical staffing manager.
    You may say that it was luck but DO YOU HAVE TO SPENT ANY MONEY ON BEING NICE TO PEOPLE.You dont know who is going to help and when. I can tell you that even if you dont get a job there you will atleast you will be well liked there

    7 SMILE

    Have you noticed one thing in the hospital where you are doing attachment. People who smile more are well liked. Try this tomorrow morning when you go to the Hospital give a big smile to everyone you see. Half of the people will smile back . Do this everywhere you go especially the consultants , patients and medical staffing.

    Who Am I

    I had come to UK 1 year back . struggled fopr 6 months like all of you . Learned how to cope up here and I am sharing the secrets
  10. eddy

    eddy Guest

    thanks

    thank you that was so encouraging.God will see me thru
  11. please listen to this guys

    if you guys have any doubts regarding the latest situation of plab doctors......google the word ...newsnight .....and then search for plab doctors....you can watch the report run by BBC which has the experience of doctors,Mahabhide and the GMC chief.

    Please dont get into this.
  12. dadai

    dadai Guest

    sho jobs in psychiatry

    Our trust has recently advertised an SHO post in psychiatry in South East England and had over 1200 applicants in less than a week!
    My advice for Psychiatry:
    learn to drive and get a car -no chance without
    On an attachment be ultra keen so can get a locum
    Be ultra keen in locum
    get everywhere early and talk to the other staff especially nursing
    offer to do any extra duties to get in with medical staffing
    do an audit
    if you give presents give thorntons continental chocolates!
  13. cool dude

    cool dude Guest

    HI

    All I can tell about the current situation of INDIAN DOCTORS in UK is that there is a need of lot of introspection to be done.

    FIRST ABOUT PLAB. PLAB was a very tough exam before 2000 after which it was eased out to allow the influx of doctors from abroad to fill up the vacancies in UK. In 2000 there was a move to increase the number of medical seats. As a result since 2000 many doctors applied for jobs after clearing their PLAB. EAST HAM BHIDE (silly advert) and not mention the of land lords in EASTHAM were all benefited and since our country has abundance of doctors many people came here. The result was such that GMC from being a small office building now has an amazing building in one of the POSH LONDON locations. It is all from the money that coming from INDIA.

    As the years trickled GMC discovered that UK qualified doctor is valued in INDIA hence they banked upon this fact and they increased the number of PLAB examination both in the number of student taking and in the number of centers where it is conducted. No one wants to stop a flourishing business.

    It also meant good business for people like BHIDE. But then things got saturated and now every one is cribbing about it.

    THE PLUSSES I SEE IN PLAB ARE THAT Who ever had a MBBS qualification from INDIA did a very nice thing by coming to UK in 2000. I am sure every one is settled by now. It worked out well for all of them.
    It was rather a smart move. It was even better for those who moved in 2000 after doing their postgraduation and had some experience in INDIA because they had nothing to loose even if they would not get a job in UK.

    Even those who came to UK around 2003 June still have succeeded in UK if they had a postgraduate degree.

    It is still a worth while prospect to come to UK if some one has got a postgraduate degree from india along with some experience and if some one has saved some money. Well worst case scenario they might not get a job but they dont have anything to loose other than money which they can always earn back in INDIA though it might take them a year or two.

    THE WORST thing about PLAB. What PLAB did was it was a diversion to those who were fresh and were wondering about the direction they needed to take in life. The most important thing after MBBS is to try and get a post graduate training. We all know how difficult it is to get a post
    graduate seat in INDIA so many people tried to come to UK hearing stories that the pay is definitely a lot more than in INDIA and after all money is what matters. However the year after graduation is the most precious year. One can take indian entrances or try GRE/ TOEFL route to US or take up USMLE and then try luck for US VISA or take up UK PLAB.

    Well who ever is going through this website must understand and keep track of things. Please go through the internet find out as much as you can and as much as you want before you decide to come to UK.
    Personally it is not an ideal place for fresh MBBS graduates. It might be worth it for post graduate students because they have nothing to loose.
    Many might be insisted up on parents, peers, teachers to go to UK. But then in the long run we are searching for training in a particular feild be it general medicine, general surgery and all others.

    It would be wise on our part to think and strategize our career. We are all learned people. We have a very good degree in our hands called MBBS. Yeas just MBBS may not be suffice but then it is up to us to explore the possibilities that are available. The problem is that 6500 people are in UK struggling for jobs in reality are we doing justice to our qualifications that we have had. Instead of blaming GMC, BHIDE, UK, or anything let us look into ourselves first. GUYS we are doctors. We have to be proud that what we know is special. We must think before we do some thing. Internet is for all of us. There are so many options like health care system administration, biomedical informatics, bioinformatics, molecular biology cell biology, medical underwriting and hundreds of them which are the feilds which are coming up.

    My comments would be to those people like me who have got MBBS only. We were too young when we decided our careers now we are mature enough. It is never a bad idea to stratergize now again. It was good 6 years ago when we decided up on our careers but then with time situation have changed.

    It would be worth if people chalked out plans well before coming to UK.
    I dont say doctors should not try UK but then we are intelligent enough to keep some alternatives. It would be fantastic if we would speak to career counsellers before we decided to come to UK/ to go US/ to take up PG courses in INDIA.

    It is very unfortunate that we being the best brains in the society are looking at a system like PLAB with out understanding its dynamics as to how and why things have developed. We are blaming the system instead of being smart. I guess instead of blaming any body any system in india US or UK. It is high time we started to look around, did some kind of soul searching instead of having a very dogmatic approach to our careers.

    We are the best brains in the society and we must be proud of our accomplishments we must have the mind set to take up the pressures of the society, difficulties of the system and
    "decide our future rather than to predict our future"

    I have put this comment not to discourage people coming to UK. Even I wrote plab 1 & 2. I went through the streets of eastham, I ate at the gurudwara and also had food at the temple. I am thankful to god that he gave me food and shelter. I however came back after a breif stinct in UK and am working on my alternatives. I guess these alternatives could be something one must like to do and to be forced upon our selves.
    We must speak to people from all possible feilds, related to medicine, our professors, counsellors, go through websites, speak to our parents, freinds, seniours and to people whom ever we can before we decide up on our career moves.

    MY COMMENTS WOULD BE MORE TOWARDS THOSE WHO HAVE FINISHED THEIR MBBS ONLY AND ARE SEARCHING FOR CAREER OPTIONS.



    WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST.

    thank you

    Cool dude
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    some discouraging thoughts?? or disgruntled??The actual situation must be somewhere in between
  15. FELLOW DOC

    FELLOW DOC Guest

    my reality

    HI all.
    Ahappy new year to you and if I dnt know who will make for me.
    To start
    Backhome in govt. job
    Bug of plab bit me
    Passed plab1 Ielts 1 go
    Too optimistic ,bulging with confidence after 5 years experience BACKHOME
    landed in UK to see the purity and f*****n glittering shit by my eastham coaching people say (he has continued in the same trend since he himself passed plab2 ) aargh.., by tha wway are u allergic to aspirin, we will talk about it when we will cross tha bridge,are some of his famous sayings been repeated million times and i was b****y confused about mgt of AMI.
    LEAVE IT this much is enough for his so se*y lookin website.
    appeard in plab2 may 04-- failed(result for that day 22%)six of our housemates only 1 managed a pass.I AM NOT KIDDIN.cHECK FOR 27TH may 04.
    anyway sat 4 five days for 22 hours a day to get a so called flash date but in vain as if my life flash was off,
    got a date for 11/04,meanwhile startd searchn 4 attachmnts got 1 after 4 months wait,
    by that time was near,we all failures gathered again to find that coach becomin so hostile to us as if we are beggers.he dumped us in a common roomwhere only wooden beds no dunlops for first day and the current examinees were using our bedroom as a discussion room.i must say that helped us a lot,laterwe found our own accomodation and was paid 100 quids perhead, the rent being 150.
    Finally cleard the hurdle, returned to my sense of self confidence as i atleast gettin attachment offers from 60 percent of places i applied.
    FILLED MY FIRST FORM OF BMJ ,started my attachment of four months in a university hospital with a hope of atleat gettn a locum for registration but was not lucky enough. posts were advertised and i approachd the cons to hear these three words i will be goin backhome and aboveall i refused shortlistin and go and meet the clin director yourself, okay i met and was not shortlisted.
    COUNTDOWN TO BMJ APPLICATIONS REACHED 500 BU 04/05
    then i started an attachmnt again in a small hospital and within a month i was offered a locum of 10 days.that gave a small sigh in my soul and i mangd my registration and PFT VISA on same day with the visa aPPLICATION I FILLED IN THE CAB I HAD TO HIRE FROM EASTHAM TO CROYDON DUE TO LACK OF TIME.
    ANYWAY LIFE WAS A BIT EASY WITH MY FIRST SALARY CLEARED MY ALL DEBTS.
    Then came the reality of community favour or (jugaad/setting / pulla)as we say backhome.
    Posts were here also advertised with clear mention of them to be recognised for BST training and when i approached my new consultant he literally fought with medical staffing that these are HST training posts and we are lookin for more UK experienced persons and those with two/tthree year of sho experience were selected from the same butterers / jugaad.
    MY BMJ COUNTDOWN REACHED 1000 BY SEPT04.
    locums driedas everyone wants six month experience in UK .i think the people here obtain this in their (cocoon)/ eggshell cant be offensive for any one.
    i started applyin in opposite Specialties to try my luck along with mine too.
    then i did 1 more attachmnt was shortlisted kept in waitin list and now whwn i need my consultant he is on holidays (cant blame him bcoz he aagave me a ray of light to look upon for few months.
    MY BMJ COUNTDOWN HAS REACHED 1700 OR MORE NOW,still going on,
    i started applyn to australia, newzealand etc
    booked ATLS ON MY SAVED FUNDS
    PLANNING FOR IRISH REGISTRATION ALSO.
    I cant mention the condition of my family backhome as though financially not so week,their dream of mine being a responsible good specialist hasnot started yet and i had pledged not to go back untill i secure a regular post here OR MY VISA EXPIRES.


    all the best to all of you



    TIPS

    NEVER EVER BELIEVE IN YOUR COUNTRY MATES WHO HAVE COME HERE AND HAVE GOT THE JOB BEFORE YOU IN PLACES WHERE U ARE AN ATTACHEEE, AS THEY ARE THE BIGGEST BACK BITERS.
    TRY TO BE FROM LOWER PART OR ABOVE SEPARATED PART BACKHOME
    IN YOUR NEXT BIRTH AND YOU WILL BE AT EASE FROM WE THE MIDDLE ONES.

    BEWARE OF BAD CLINICAL ATTACHMENTS.


    NO COMMENTS FROM FELLOW ENGLISH GRADUATE BY HEART IF THEY ARE NOT FINDING ANY JOBS
    WHICH IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY; SHOW YOUR FACE ANYWHERE AND U ARE THE CHAMPION.
    DNT SAY US TO GO BACK

    TELL ME IF I SAY AND PUBLICIZE IN MEDIA,MAKE VISA RULES EASIER AND GIVE YOU ALL THE HOSPITALITY IN MY COUNTRY WITH THESE OFFERS

    1 COME ENGLISH GRADS TO MY COUNTRY GET AN ADMISSON IN YOUR SPECIALTY OF CHOICE WITHOUT ANY ENTRANCE EXAM NO FEES, NO INTERVENING EXAMS,JUST AN OVERALL ASSESMENT TO MAKE U A SPECIALIST
    NICE ALLURING SALARY WITH FREE DRINKS AND*****
    CHEAPEST YET THE WEALTHIEST COST OF LIVING
    AAND TELL ME WHO S GONNA STOP.
    JUST AN EXAMPLE TO SAY HOW WE ARE LURED BY YOUR POLICY MAKERS AND THEN SIMPLY SAY TO US WHO HAS ASKED YOU TO COME HERE.
    I MUST SAY IF YOU HAVE SHOATAGES WHY DONT U CALL TENFOLDS OF US .WHY DO U OPEN THE GATES FOR EVERY OTHER GRADUATE (FRESH AS WELL AS ANCIENT ONES,

    ANYWAY SORRY IF I HURT ANYONES FEELINGS
    BUT ITS TRUE WITH ME.
    TAKE CARE BEFORE U DECIDE TO COME.
    :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
  16. FELLOW DOC

    FELLOW DOC Guest

    my reality

    HI all.
    Ahappy new year to you and if I dnt know who will make for me.
    To start
    Backhome in govt. job
    Bug of plab bit me
    Passed plab1 Ielts 1 go
    Too optimistic ,bulging with confidence after 5 years experience BACKHOME
    landed in UK to see the purity and f*****n glittering shit by my eastham coaching people say (he has continued in the same trend since he himself passed plab2 ) aargh.., by tha wway are u allergic to aspirin, we will talk about it when we will cross tha bridge,are some of his famous sayings been repeated million times and i was b****y confused about mgt of AMI.
    LEAVE IT this much is enough for his so se*y lookin website.
    appeard in plab2 may 04-- failed(result for that day 22%)six of our housemates only 1 managed a pass.I AM NOT KIDDIN.cHECK FOR 27TH may 04.
    anyway sat 4 five days for 22 hours a day to get a so called flash date but in vain as if my life flash was off,
    got a date for 11/04,meanwhile startd searchn 4 attachmnts got 1 after 4 months wait,
    by that time was near,we all failures gathered again to find that coach becomin so hostile to us as if we are beggers.he dumped us in a common roomwhere only wooden beds no dunlops for first day and the current examinees were using our bedroom as a discussion room.i must say that helped us a lot,laterwe found our own accomodation and was paid 100 quids perhead, the rent being 150.
    Finally cleard the hurdle, returned to my sense of self confidence as i atleast gettin attachment offers from 60 percent of places i applied.
    FILLED MY FIRST FORM OF BMJ ,started my attachment of four months in a university hospital with a hope of atleat gettn a locum for registration but was not lucky enough. posts were advertised and i approachd the cons to hear these three words i will be goin backhome and aboveall i refused shortlistin and go and meet the clin director yourself, okay i met and was not shortlisted.
    COUNTDOWN TO BMJ APPLICATIONS REACHED 500 BU 04/05
    then i started an attachmnt again in a small hospital and within a month i was offered a locum of 10 days.that gave a small sigh in my soul and i mangd my registration and PFT VISA on same day with the visa aPPLICATION I FILLED IN THE CAB I HAD TO HIRE FROM EASTHAM TO CROYDON DUE TO LACK OF TIME.
    ANYWAY LIFE WAS A BIT EASY WITH MY FIRST SALARY CLEARED MY ALL DEBTS.
    Then came the reality of community favour or (jugaad/setting / pulla)as we say backhome.
    Posts were here also advertised with clear mention of them to be recognised for BST training and when i approached my new consultant he literally fought with medical staffing that these are HST training posts and we are lookin for more UK experienced persons and those with two/tthree year of sho experience were selected from the same butterers / jugaad.
    MY BMJ COUNTDOWN REACHED 1000 BY SEPT04.
    locums driedas everyone wants six month experience in UK .i think the people here obtain this in their (cocoon)/ eggshell cant be offensive for any one.
    i started applyin in opposite Specialties to try my luck along with mine too.
    then i did 1 more attachmnt was shortlisted kept in waitin list and now whwn i need my consultant he is on holidays (cant blame him bcoz he aagave me a ray of light to look upon for few months.
    MY BMJ COUNTDOWN HAS REACHED 1700 OR MORE NOW,still going on,
    i started applyn to australia, newzealand etc
    booked ATLS ON MY SAVED FUNDS
    PLANNING FOR IRISH REGISTRATION ALSO.
    I cant mention the condition of my family backhome as though financially not so week,their dream of mine being a responsible good specialist hasnot started yet and i had pledged not to go back untill i secure a regular post here OR MY VISA EXPIRES.


    all the best to all of you



    TIPS

    NEVER EVER BELIEVE IN YOUR COUNTRY MATES WHO HAVE COME HERE AND HAVE GOT THE JOB BEFORE YOU IN PLACES WHERE U ARE AN ATTACHEEE, AS THEY ARE THE BIGGEST BACK BITERS.
    TRY TO BE FROM LOWER PART OR ABOVE SEPARATED PART BACKHOME
    IN YOUR NEXT BIRTH AND YOU WILL BE AT EASE FROM WE THE MIDDLE ONES.

    BEWARE OF BAD CLINICAL ATTACHMENTS.


    NO COMMENTS FROM FELLOW ENGLISH GRADUATE BY HEART IF THEY ARE NOT FINDING ANY JOBS
    WHICH IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY; SHOW YOUR FACE ANYWHERE AND U ARE THE CHAMPION.
    DNT SAY US TO GO BACK

    TELL ME IF I SAY AND PUBLICIZE IN MEDIA,MAKE VISA RULES EASIER AND GIVE YOU ALL THE HOSPITALITY IN MY COUNTRY WITH THESE OFFERS

    1 COME ENGLISH GRADS TO MY COUNTRY GET AN ADMISSON IN YOUR SPECIALTY OF CHOICE WITHOUT ANY ENTRANCE EXAM NO FEES, NO INTERVENING EXAMS,JUST AN OVERALL ASSESMENT TO MAKE U A SPECIALIST
    NICE ALLURING SALARY WITH FREE DRINKS AND*****
    CHEAPEST YET THE WEALTHIEST COST OF LIVING
    AAND TELL ME WHO S GONNA STOP.
    JUST AN EXAMPLE TO SAY HOW WE ARE LURED BY YOUR POLICY MAKERS AND THEN SIMPLY SAY TO US WHO HAS ASKED YOU TO COME HERE.
    I MUST SAY IF YOU HAVE SHOATAGES WHY DONT U CALL TENFOLDS OF US .WHY DO U OPEN THE GATES FOR EVERY OTHER GRADUATE (FRESH AS WELL AS ANCIENT ONES,

    ANYWAY SORRY IF I HURT ANYONES FEELINGS
    BUT ITS TRUE WITH ME.
    TAKE CARE BEFORE U DECIDE TO COME.
    :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
  17. Subject: BAPIO legal action fund collection- alternate payment method
    Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:51:10 -0700 (PDT)


    Friends,

    You know that there is a deadline for legal action ( I heard so at least). BAPIO ( British association of physicians of Idian Origin) ( www.bapio.com) who is organising this, is short of funds now....

    Please send your contributions ASAP preferably by electronic transfer or by cheques.

    A/c Name BAPIO
    Bank Norwich and Peterborough Building Society
    Sort Code 086081
    A/c number 92008541
    Address: 43 Hookhams Lane,
    Renhold,
    Bedford, MK41 0JU

    or donate instantly with paypal.

    Message from Bapio...

    FUND RAISING APPEAL

    In response to the new regulations announced by the Department of Health abolishing the Permit Free Training on 7th March 2006, British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin is inviting donations to ensure that BAPIO is able:

    1. To assists in making appropriate arrangements for representation at the Industrial Tribunals and other law courts for seeking redress grievances.
    2. To seek advice for considering taking legal action against appropriate statutory bodies to seek redress or relief for those affected by the legislation.
    3. To provide legal protection to the Board of Trustees

    The above action will be subject to sufficient funds being donated to cover the legal advice, legal action and the management cost of above issues. Furthermore, subject to adequate funds being available through donations, it will consider any financial assistance scheme to individual or individuals towards securing legal or other representation at the hearing during employment disputes.

    BAPIO has established BAPIO ACTION, a Company Limited by Guarantee to undertake some of these activities. None of the donations will be refundable under any circumstances. The residue of the funds will be secured under this new company to support similar causes in the future.

    Financial details will be Audited and publicised.
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    DO NOT GIVE ANY MONEY!!

    BAPIO has a lot of rich consultants.
    These consultants are either british citizens or have resident status.
    They have no financial problems.

    If they want to go to court,they should be ready to finance their court case!!!!!

    Personally,I know they are wasting their time.

    Those who have the money to waste should please waste their money instead of trying to squeeze money out of struggling PPUDs.

    BAPIO,sponsor your court case yourself!!!!!!
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    BAPIO has a lot of rich consultants.
    These consultants are either british citizens or have resident status.
    They have no financial problems.


    That is aboslutely true!They dont need to bother about us ,the bloody PPUd at all.Many have children who will benefit from the law as well.Still they are trying to help us.Open your eyes and see taht gesture of good wil.
  20. ramesneuro

    ramesneuro Guest

    reply

    the doctors in UK [esp senior consultants] think they are directly from heaven. the illtreat the indian doctors when we apply to them for training. [i have personal experiance with one dr.sengupta]. this is not the case with arab doctors or latin american doctors. my feeling is if someone dont want us better come back and lead a peaceful life in some village in india with respect rather than staying in some corner in bitter cold holding your balls and anxious about tomorrow. what we should do is we should not encourage foreign graduates in our country.
    i was betrayed by dr sengupta 10 yrs back i did the same thing i am not starving but happy though not rolling in sterling pounds and driving mercedes benz. never pay any money to those fellows. they will treat u like shit if they dont need u
  21. GuesttoUK

    GuesttoUK Guest

    Most of us must have read about the recent suicide by Dr Yousaf Imran. My heartfelt condolences to his family and so sorry for their tragic loss. As one who has been through the PLAB experience and came out of it, I am writing to let you know what you are engaging on. I know there are thousands of sceptics out there who feel that our geniune advice is bourne of selfish motives. I however do believe that as a doctor I have the moral obligation to warn you.

    I passed PLAB 2 in early 2005, just a few weeks after I travelled to the UK. It was then that I began facing the reality of the situation. Before I travelled, I read through hundreds of posts from PPUDs already in the UK, and one from a friend who was doing a Master's in Epidemiology in Cambridge. Despite this I felt they were just loosers trying to discourage me so I took the plunge. Nothing was going to stand between me, the MRCP,CCST and living life as a consultant in the UK. It did not take long to realise this was not going to happen to me.

    After some 80 letters, I finally had my first short interview for a clinical attachment. The consultant, an IMG of a previous generation told me the truth. Jobs were scarce and the situation was getting worse. They had been lobbying to try to resolve this for some time and failing this, people like him were helping doctors in whatever way they could. I started this attachment a short while later and worked really hard. At the same time I started my wave of job applications and soon lost count. At first I thought the problem was with my CV and applications, but after having one consultant I knew review and correct my forms, I quickly realised this wasn't the case. Then I set about networking in the hospital I was doing my attachment in. They all were impressed by my hardwork, and even rewarded me with locums for a total of 15 days. After 3 months, I had to leave and they really were kind and supportive but could not help me further.

    Now armed with my GMC registration and PFT, I was ready to get into the job hunting proper. After a few more months sending out hundreds of applications I realised I was not getting anywhere. I started another attachment, took and passed the MRCPCH Part 1, then did the NLS course in time for the start of job applications for August 2006 jobs. I then put in my applications too for the GPVTS England and was selected for the second stage, which was a MCS assessment in Birmingham. I wrote and passed with a high score of 81% (the pass mark was set at 60 %). However the visa rules were passed on the 7th of March, just one day before this examination. My GPVTS application as such went up in flames. They wrote to me informing me about the visa regulations, that I could not be selected because they had enough applications from UK and EU graduates and as such will not be considering ours. They wished me good luck in my future career!!

    Most of us don't really understand how bad this experience is like until you are already trapped in it. That is why I have decided to warn you. Don't get me wrong. My idea is not to stop you from getting to England. My idea is simply to warn you and to prepare you for what you can expect if things get wrong.

    Dr Yousafs case seems like an extreme but this is not really so. There are thousands of IMGs, young and talented individuals who left their countries in search of education they so deeply cherish who are trapped in despiar suffering from anxiety, intense stress and frank depression. Worse still they are cut of from counsellors or other forms of help. Every thursday we went through the same ritual, that of downloading job adverts and applying for them. Once you start applying for jobs the waiting period is constant. Despite thousands of applications and no response, you keep having this shred of hope that you may be called at anytime. The clock ticks slowly and with each tick your visa crawls steadily towards expiration. This keeps you awake at night because you need to come up with a way to extend it and soon enough financial problems too creep in. I remember accidentally locking myself outside the room twice in one day because I was so preoccupied with problems that I forgot the keys inside. Then there is the debt and the enourmous financial looses you have acquired back home, the loss of face and feeling of failure each time you think about going home, yet you can't put off these thoughts because you visa creeps slowly but surely to it's inevitable end. The final blow for most is the day the letter comes refusing to grant you further stay in the UK.

    They GMC insists they are not responsible, yet the job statistics information they have in their site is about 2 years old. The Royal Colleges too seemingly don't have a hand in all this yet they conduct examinations that are normally used to assess progress in British Medical Training abroad, making enourmous profits in the process and luring foreign doctors in the country by passing these exams as qualifications in their own right. The DoH claiming there are just a few doctors who are unemployed, totally ignoring the plight of the thousands of IMGs who wallow in despair. You end up getting the feeling that you are not even worthy to be considered in their statistics. The Home Office too isn't responsible for this. Then who is? Naturally they want you to feel responsible. This trend only adds more pain, despair and guilt.

    Few of us have the tools to fight this, my friends. You only start surviving when you realise that you probably are running after the wind. Following the visa changes I realised immediately that I did not stand a chance and started preparing to return home. This meant working using my PFT to raise money for my ticket and pay off some of the debts. It was stressing but I fought on. I also got a lot of support from a network of friends I had in England who helped me during those times with accomodation. Despite this it was a very difficult experience. I would like you to understand the following lessons which I have learnt.

    1. It is not training in the UK that makes you a great doctor.
    Unlike other countries that have traditionally remained closed to IMGs the UK barrs them from training yet sells training evaluation examinations under the guise that they are prestigious. Now tell me, if this is not purely a profit making venture then what is it? There are thousands of registrars and consultants who are making fortunes out of the courses and material they sell for these examinations.

    2. The training system in our countries, although not perfect is good. Wait a minute!! I took and passed the PLAB, and MRCPCH part 1 without actually working as a British SHO. If the training we had was that bad, how did this happen?

    There is a lot we can do to improve healthcare in our countries and maintain the dignity and respect we have as doctors. First we must start to recongnise this one fact that we can equally train and work in our own countries and make a contribution to these people who really need us.

    I sincerely hope this post will help some of you make a decision that is hard to come to. Look before you leap.
  22. tyra

    tyra Guest

    please which edition is the latest for london plab book. is it 3rd or 4th edition and where can i get the latest edition thanks
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    what about orthopedics
    is it a competitive specialty
    if i finished masters would it help to find a job
  24. usman

    usman New Member

    Sir, you took the painstaking task of writing such crucial piece of information, i cant do more than paying best regards, if only you could update us with a few more words on current 2014 situation. :)

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