Thinking about coming to Australia?

Discussion in 'Australian Medical Council (AMC) EXAM' started by An immigrant doc, Aug 11, 2007.

  1. OTD

    OTD Guest

    More problems: other states

    The Age Melbourne

    Nurses to close one quarter of beds

    Jane Holroyd
    October 16, 2007 - 4:00PM
    Advertisement

    Victoria's public sector nurses have voted to close one in four beds as their dispute with the state Government escalates.

    From 7am tomorrow, nurses will close one quarter of beds in the state's public hospitals, except the Royal Children's Hospital and the Peter MacCallum.

    Nurses have also voted to close one in four operating theatre sessions for an indefinite period until the state Government resolves the dispute.

    The next Australian Nurses Federation meeting is scheduled for October 25th.

    Earlier, more than 3000 public sector nurses risked thousands of dollars in fines to attend a stopwork meeting in their fight for better pay and nurse-patient ratios.

    The state branch of the ANF called the meeting to determine whether its members would accept the Brumby Government's offer of a 3.25 per cent per annum pay increase.

    The ANF is demanding a six per cent per annum pay increase over three years, saying Victoria's nurses are the lowest paid in the country.

    ANF Victorian branch secretary, Lisa Fitzpatrick, this afternoon thanked the hundreds of nurses who had travelled to Dallas Brooks Hall from country areas, including busloads of nurses from Mildura.

    "We might have to look at a bigger venue next time," Ms Fitzpatrick told the crowd, which filled every seat in the hall. More nurses, sporting red ANF T-shirts, packed the stage and lined walls.

    She also thanked the crowd for attending despite the threat of docked pay or fines.

    The Department of Human Services is believed to have circulated a bulletin warning nurses they faced individual fines of $6600 under federal workplace laws if they were paid for attending today's meeting.

    A party-like atmosphere preceded today's formal speeches and debate as thousands of nurses clapped and cheered along to Aretha Franklin's 'Respect' and Billy Bragg's 'Power in a Union'.

    The hall was a sea of red ANF placards reading "Victoria's nurses are not worth less".

    Ms Fitzpatrick told the crowd the Brumby Government had not come forward with a new pay offer and remained determined to scrap current mandatory nurse-patient ratios.

    "[Instead the Government had] wasted an opportunity to fix this dispute" and instead used threats to undermine the move for industrial action.

    She said Victorian nurses were working overtime without pay and in many cases risking their health by working dangerously long night shifts.

    The ANF will soon vote on whether to begin industrial action, likely to be in the form of bed closures.

    The result of the vote is expected about 3.30pm.

    Ms Fitzpatrick said the message to the state Government was clear: "No nurses. No beds. No patients."

    For general wards in public hospitals, the current mandatory ratio is four patients to one nurse.

    Ms Fitzpatrick said if the state Government did not meet the nurses' demands, further action might be needed.


    There is a real mess in the Health System in NSW, now Vic: I know there is a shortage in SA and Tassie and QLD and NT. So, far the only mess documented relate to QLD (clearing up); NSW (rising to greater heights) and now, the crack is showing in Vic.

    Still want to come?
  2. OTD

    OTD Guest

    The culture of dobbing the best - jealousy reigns!!

    Experts to probe complaints against trauma surgeon



    Richard Baker and Nick McKenzie, Age Investigative Unit
    October 17, 2007
    Latest related coverage



    THE head of Victoria's leading hospital trauma centre has chosen to stand down while an external review examines his treatment of patients.

    The Alfred hospital has commissioned a leading spinal surgeon to investigate complaints about Professor Thomas Kossmann, who was appointed in 2001 to head the state's major trauma centre.

    Hospital insiders say the allegations regarding Professor Kossmann involve concerns about whether procedures performed on some patients might have been excessive and unnecessary.

    The Alfred chief executive Jennifer Williams last night issued a memo to senior staff saying that she had "recently received complaints about a trauma surgeon".

    "Due to this highly specialised nature of the work, the hospital has been unable to adequately assess these complaints internally. In order to do so, an independent external peer review has been commissioned," Ms Williams said.

    "The surgeon is well recognised in this area of practice … (he) has chosen not to participate in operative work during this time."

    The review, conducted by Bob Dickens, the former head of orthopedics at the Royal Children's Hospital, and two other leading surgeons, will begin next month.

    The Department of Human Services yesterday said it was aware of the investigation into a senior trauma surgeon at The Alfred.

    The Age last night tried to contact Professor Kossmann through the hospital but was unable to do so.

    Recruited from a hospital in Zurich, Switzerland, the German-born doctor has been successful in attracting funding to The Alfred trauma centre and was instrumental in establishing the National Trauma Research Institute at the hospital. He is well known for treating victims of the 2002 Bali bombings and has overseen efforts to have motor vehicle crash victims in Victoria flown to The Alfred within an hour.

    It is believed that complaints have been made to The Alfred's arrangement between the Transport Accident Commission, Professor Kossmann and the hospital. The trauma centre treats a high number of car crash victims who are financially covered by the TAC.

    But other well-placed sources said Professor Kossmann was the subject of malicious complaints due to his public profile and bold personality. One colleague said Professor Kossmann was an accomplished surgeon.

    A TAC spokeswoman said last night that the commission was told by The Alfred yesterday that the allegations would be investigated. "We will await the outcome of that investigation. The TAC has not received any complaint about any inappropriate service in relation to this matter," the spokeswoman said.

    Professor Kossmann is director of the National Trauma Research Institute at The Alfred and his wife, Christina Morganti-Kossmann, is a senior researcher at the institute. The institute is linked to the hospital's trauma centre and conducts research into improving the treatment of accident victims.

    In 2003-04, Professor Kossmann and Ms Morganti-Kossmann gave $288,000 to the institute, making them its fifth largest donor.

    One of the biggest contributors to the institute is the TAC-owned Victorian Trauma Foundation, which in 2003-04 gave $1.3 million for trauma research.

    Stephen Grant, TAC's chief executive until February last year, is the long-time chairman of Bayside Health, which oversees The Alfred and several other hospitals.

    Ms Williams told senior Alfred staff last night that the panel investigating Professor Kossmann had been asked to deliver its findings as soon as possible.
  3. Galileo

    Galileo Guest

    You know what will happen to ProfKossmann do you not? This would be a blot on his CV.

    Many if not ALL developed countries including Singapore have institutions which have only their job application forms the following question:

    * Have you been the subject of any investigation into your competency, professional conduct during any part of your career?

    If yes, please give details.....

    well, whatever the outcome, there will be a doubt and if you are competing against another candidate who had never been investigated, the chances are that you will not be selected.

    Look, everyone, the Ozzies do not want you there! They operate on a White Australia policy and, if you are white South African or white British, you are in.....Europeans and Asians are all second and third class.

    Forget about going to Oz,,,they cannot even treat their own citizens properly. Their most brilliant minds drain to UK and USA and never return
  4. OTD

    OTD Guest

    New hope as Meagher admits to staff crisis

    Natasha Wallace Health Reporter
    October 20, 2007


    EMERGENCY doctors finally have an acknowledgement of chronic staff shortages from the Government and are hopeful about the future of NSW's public hospitals.

    Yesterday, at a meeting with the state's leading emergency physicians, the Health Minister, Reba Meagher, agreed that medical staffing levels and recruitment and training strategies were inadequate.

    It is seen as a breakthrough for the Emergency Care Taskforce, which had quit in frustration a year ago.

    Ms Meagher agreed to several strategies including promoting emergency nursing as a specialty, reviewing medical staffing requirements in emergency and better managing the use of casual doctors, a spokesman said.

    She said she would instruct area health service chief executives to remove unnecessary red tape and impediments.

    "The group will focus on a number of key issues, including increased patient numbers in emergency departments, workforce pressures and better communication with hospital management," Ms Meagher said.

    A taskforce member, Dr Tony Joseph, said he was very pleased Ms Meagher had agreed to review the State Government's emergency workforce plan, particularly with regard to senior staff specialists.

    Dr Joseph, the NSW chairman of the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine, said Ms Meagher also acknowledged inpatient bed shortages and committed to providing 350 more acute beds.

    Last month, the Herald revealed the staffing crisis in public hospital emergency departments had reached the point where hospitals were forced to bid against each other for casual doctors who were already paid as much as triple the award rate.

    Doctors expressed frustration with overcrowding, inexperienced locums plugging workforce gaps and micromanagement by bureaucrats.

    Two weeks later, Jana Horska miscarried in a public toilet at Royal North Shore Hospital, prompting an avalanche of serious complaints of poor patient care at public hospitals.

    The Government bowed to pressure this week and announced a parliamentary inquiry into the hospital but has been criticised for its tight schedule.

    Yesterday, however, there appeared to be hope for emergency doctors.

    "We wanted her to acknowledge there's a severe shortage of senior medical and nursing staffing in emergency and that has been acknowledged … She also acknowledged the overcrowding issue facing emergency departments; she acknowledged there's a shortage of beds," Dr Joseph said.

    "We were impressed with her depth of understanding of the issues facing NSW emergency departments, with particular regard to senior staffing and overcrowding and she gave a commitment to urgently address our concerns.

    "We're optimistic that there will be progress and we'll just wait now to see the colour of their money."

    COMMENT

    The staff shortages in the public sector is not only in the A&E field: it is across the board generally. However, there is a funding crisis with massive cost shifting and they are targetting OTDs as unwilling and unaware tools of this dirty practice. When caught, it is not NSW Health but the OTD.

    The new hope is NOT for OTDs! Do not believe it! Look what happened to Galileo....he was faced with a scenario where he was going to be DONE IN anyway: either by the state or the Feds (NSW Health or Medicare)....he chose to be shafted by the State (Feds are more powerful but they act slower) and is now rendered unemployeable....the state will do what they can to bring the OTD on his knees to push the matter under the carpet....

    The mess is as bad as the NHS! Do not come to Australia especially NSW!
  5. OTD

    OTD Guest

    Too full NSW hospitals in 'danger zone'

    Sydney Morning Herald
    Natasha Wallace Health Reporter
    October 26, 2007
    Latest related coverage

    * Poll: Who's to blame for the hospital's crisis?



    TEACHING hospitals in NSW are running so far beyond capacity, with 97 per cent of beds full, that they are constantly in the "danger zone" and compromising patient safety, the Australian Medical Association says.

    NSW is also almost the worst state or territory when it comes to elective surgery patients being seen within recommended times. Only the Northern Territory, the ACT and Tasmania rank lower.

    The association released its Public Hospital Report Card 2007 yesterday at Royal North Shore Hospital.

    Rosanna Capolingua, the association's president, said the problems were similar across Australia - emergency patients banked up due to a lack of beds and long waits for elective surgery - reflecting a public health system in crisis.

    Dr Capolingua called on the Federal Government and the Opposition to release health policies. "My question to the Prime Minister and to Kevin Rudd is, where are the policies on health? Are they frightened to put policies up?" The association is calling for a $3 billion top-up for next year.

    Dr Capolingua said public patients were suffering from the lack of funds and resources and poor management. "We have seen the tragic consequences of these failures in hospitals like Royal North Shore … It is just one of many hospitals that have been telling the story," she said.

    She said the finding that public hospital beds had been cut by 60 per cent over the past 20 years, despite an increase in demand, was alarming.

    The report says: "Cuts to hospital bed numbers have been too deep and the risk of systemic breakdowns is too high."

    Dr Capolingua said bed occupancy rates averaged 95 per cent at major teaching hospitals - and sometimes peaked above that - much higher than the long recognised benchmark of 85 per cent.

    "NSW is sitting at 97 per cent, so NSW is way over the national benchmark. We are worried about patient safety. Bed occupancy over 85 per cent is the danger zone."

    Public hospitals were constantly under pressure, with fewer than two-thirds of urgent emergency department patients seen within clinically appropriate times and a "marked deterioration" in patients receiving elective surgery in time, she said.

    The report said the Federal Government had "slackened off" in hospital funding.

    In NSW, the percentage of elective surgery patients seen within 90 days is 78 per cent, ranking behind Queensland (86 per cent), Victoria (84 per cent), South Australia (82 per cent) and Western Australia (82 per cent).

    The NSW Health Minister, Reba Meagher, said in Parliament the medical association's report showed NSW had a higher per capita bed count than everywhere but South Australia and the Northern Territory.

    Funding for elective surgery had risen by $18.5 million in the past year and "waiting times have been dramatically reduced", she said.


    COMMENT:

    It is out of the bag: many of the "problems" with OTDs are just surrogate signs of a grossly dysfunctional and deteriorating system. The OTDs are not the real problem: the system is and frequently creates victims.

    During such crises, the first to be blamed are those vulnerable and those who cannot easily fight back. This is then swept under the carpet....when more s*&^ surfaces, they give more reasons and try to do other tricks like, exaggerating outcomes linked to OTDs and covering up those linked to locals (see Dr Patel's versus Dr Broadbent)

    The time will come when the whole thing will collapse: if no radical repairs are done now....

    OTD's would you like to be caught in this mess when it is happening: even when you may be caught by what is 'friendly fire'? (and be a 'victim of the system')
  6. OTD

    OTD Guest

    Too full NSW hospitals in 'danger zone'

    Sydney Morning Herald
    Natasha Wallace Health Reporter
    October 26, 2007
    Latest related coverage

    * Poll: Who's to blame for the hospital's crisis?



    TEACHING hospitals in NSW are running so far beyond capacity, with 97 per cent of beds full, that they are constantly in the "danger zone" and compromising patient safety, the Australian Medical Association says.

    NSW is also almost the worst state or territory when it comes to elective surgery patients being seen within recommended times. Only the Northern Territory, the ACT and Tasmania rank lower.

    The association released its Public Hospital Report Card 2007 yesterday at Royal North Shore Hospital.

    Rosanna Capolingua, the association's president, said the problems were similar across Australia - emergency patients banked up due to a lack of beds and long waits for elective surgery - reflecting a public health system in crisis.

    Dr Capolingua called on the Federal Government and the Opposition to release health policies. "My question to the Prime Minister and to Kevin Rudd is, where are the policies on health? Are they frightened to put policies up?" The association is calling for a $3 billion top-up for next year.

    Dr Capolingua said public patients were suffering from the lack of funds and resources and poor management. "We have seen the tragic consequences of these failures in hospitals like Royal North Shore … It is just one of many hospitals that have been telling the story," she said.

    She said the finding that public hospital beds had been cut by 60 per cent over the past 20 years, despite an increase in demand, was alarming.

    The report says: "Cuts to hospital bed numbers have been too deep and the risk of systemic breakdowns is too high."

    Dr Capolingua said bed occupancy rates averaged 95 per cent at major teaching hospitals - and sometimes peaked above that - much higher than the long recognised benchmark of 85 per cent.

    "NSW is sitting at 97 per cent, so NSW is way over the national benchmark. We are worried about patient safety. Bed occupancy over 85 per cent is the danger zone."

    Public hospitals were constantly under pressure, with fewer than two-thirds of urgent emergency department patients seen within clinically appropriate times and a "marked deterioration" in patients receiving elective surgery in time, she said.

    The report said the Federal Government had "slackened off" in hospital funding.

    In NSW, the percentage of elective surgery patients seen within 90 days is 78 per cent, ranking behind Queensland (86 per cent), Victoria (84 per cent), South Australia (82 per cent) and Western Australia (82 per cent).

    The NSW Health Minister, Reba Meagher, said in Parliament the medical association's report showed NSW had a higher per capita bed count than everywhere but South Australia and the Northern Territory.

    Funding for elective surgery had risen by $18.5 million in the past year and "waiting times have been dramatically reduced", she said.


    COMMENT:

    It is out of the bag: many of the "problems" with OTDs are just surrogate signs of a grossly dysfunctional and deteriorating system. The OTDs are not the real problem: the system is and frequently creates victims.

    During such crises, the first to be blamed are those vulnerable and those who cannot easily fight back. This is then swept under the carpet....when more s*&^ surfaces, they give more reasons and try to do other tricks like, exaggerating outcomes linked to OTDs and covering up those linked to locals (see Dr Patel's versus Dr Broadbent)

    The time will come when the whole thing will collapse: if no radical repairs are done now....

    OTD's would you like to be caught in this mess when it is happening: even when you may be caught by what is 'friendly fire'? (and be a 'victim of the system')

    However, the Chinaman will tell you that "in the midst of a crisis there lies opportunities£££
  7. Syrian

    Syrian Guest

    I am a fresh graduated doctor from Syria
    I have USMLE step1&2
    Do you think I have a chance to get OB/GY , surgery or anything like this in Australia ,If I did there exam
  8. guest467

    guest467 Guest

    no chance .. yes if u do some training there u will be fine here .. u will deffiniately gget a job here but it would be the toughest thing to get training position and than studying for there exam while working would be even difficult..
    so stay in ur country try to get some training position and keep on applying here in aus..and it seams that u r 80 score person .. no worries .. usa is the best place to go for training and one day u will go there
  9. Syrian

    Syrian Guest

    I am a 95 score person , but I am from Syria with no visa :x
    So, I wonder If I can study for the AMC here in Syria , and then go directly to Australia to do the exam , and after that I will search for a training
    do you think I will have a chance?
  10. OTD

    OTD Guest

    Andrews in the dark over Haneef 'plan'

    Sydney Morning Herald

    November 2, 2007

    There was no reason for Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews to see confidential emails which suggest a secret plan was in place to keep then-terror suspect Mohamed Haneef behind bars, his spokeswoman said today.

    The Australian newspaper reports the emails, between top Australian Federal Police (AFP) agents and a senior public servant advising Mr Andrews, show a contingency plan was developed in the event Dr Haneef was freed by Brisbane magistrate Jacqui Payne in July.

    "Contingencies for containing Mr Haneef and detaining him under the Migration Act, if it was the case he was granted bail on Monday, were in place as per arrangements today," the email said.

    Written by Brisbane-based counter-terrorism coordinator David Craig to commanders of the AFP's counter-terrorism unit on Saturday July 14, the email was then forwarded to Immigration Department public servant Peter White the following Monday.

    Dr Haneef was granted bail on July 16 and Mr Andrews immediately stepped in to revoke his visa under the Migration Act, although the minister denied his move was related to the court proceedings.

    A spokeswoman for Mr Andrews said today he had no knowledge of the correspondence.

    "He didn't see the emails. He hasn't seen the emails. Never heard of the police officer (mentioned)," the spokeswoman told AAP today.

    She said Mr White could have received the email and failed to hand it on to the minister, but maintained the minister had a healthy relationship with the department.

    "Absolutely, a relationship that any minister would have with his department.

    "But there would be no reason for the minister to be seeing such (emails) because they are completely unrelated to his actual decision."

    Mr Andrews first considered revoking Dr Haneef's visa on Monday July 16 and that was the only time he considered detaining the doctor, she said.

    "The visa cancellation was entirely unrelated to the criminal proceedings and the bail hearing.

    "I mean the cancellation of the visa is entirely a matter for the minister. It's only something that the minister can decide so there is no way that anyone could have known what the minister would decide."

    Dr Haneef, a 27-year-old Indian-born doctor, was detained on suspicion of involvement in a terrorist bombing incident in the United Kingdom.

    A charge - of supporting a terrorist organisation - was later dropped by prosecutors and a Federal Court judge overturned the minister's decision to cancel his visa.

    The Federal Government is appealing the court decision.

    COMMENT:

    My dear Syrian colleague - look at the continuing revelations about how badly OTDs are being treated in Australia! I fully agree with guest 467 that you should aim for the USA. They are also short of doctors like everywhere else except many developing countries who let in substandard persons freely into medical schools and allow them to move into the system. This of course is another political story, and I hope you are not one of those affected.
  11. OTD

    OTD Guest

    'Plot' to thwart Haneef normal: AFP

    The Age
    November 2, 2007 - 3:27PM

    A so-called secret plan to thwart a magistrate's decision to release then terror suspect Mohamed Haneef on bail was part of proper processes, the Australian Federal Police (AFA) said today.

    The Australian newspaper today reports confidential emails between top AFP agents and a senior public servant advising Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews show contingencies had been developed in the event Dr Haneef was freed by Brisbane magistrate Jacqui Payne.

    "Contingencies for containing Mr Haneef and detaining him under the Migration Act, if it was the case he was granted bail on Monday, were in place as per arrangements today," an email said.

    The Australian reports that under the Migration Act such a plan necessarily needed to involve Mr Andrews who always maintained his decision to revoke Dr Haneef's visa was unrelated to the Brisbane court proceedings.

    The email, written by Brisbane-based counter-terrorism coordinator David Craig to commanders of the AFP's counter-terrorism unit on Saturday, July 14, was forwarded to a top adviser to Mr Andrews, Immigration Department public servant Peter White, on the morning of Monday July 16, the paper says

    A spokeswoman for the AFP told AAP today the newspaper report showed police were following proper processes. "The email relates to normal operational contingency planning," she said.

    COMMENT:

    This is how the Australian government works. When you are let in you are on a Business or Medical Practitioner Visa (Dr Haneef was on the former). This gives a non resident status and anything which happens at work (or past work) is linked with DIMIA and the Police (and the College or AMC). If there is some flag raised (even if it is false) it is a whack first, talk later strategy. Many more OTDs have been affected by this lack of good governance which is widespread, even covering the Colleges. If it is a College sanctioned remark or statement, it is taken as gospel, even if erroneous and the taint sticks on the OTD as he or she moves around. Imagine how human rights are violated in this type of approach? Third world stuff not unlike Burma! Watch your back Johnny Howard, we hope you are going to lose the election! You have been in power too long and the power has corrupted you and your cronies.
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Australia had jail plan for Indian doctor: report

    Yahoo7 News, 2 Nov 2007


    SYDNEY (AFP) - The Australian government had a secret plan to keep a Muslim doctor who was linked to failed terror bombings in Britain in jail even if he was released on bail, a report said Friday.

    The Australian newspaper said emails obtained by Mohamed Haneef's lawyer through freedom of information laws showed the government and the federal police conspired against the doctor to keep him behind bars.

    One email, which the paper said was forwarded to a senior bureaucrat who advised Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews on the case, indicated arrangements had been made to keep Haneef detained under immigration laws before the bail hearing.

    "Contingencies for containing Mr Haneef and detaining him under the Migration Act, if it is the case he is granted bail on Monday, are in place as per arrangements today," it said.

    The immigration minister would necessarily have been involved in any detention of the Muslim doctor under the Migration Act, the newspaper said.
    ADVERTISEMENT

    Haneef, who was charged with supporting a terrorist organisation, was released on bail by a magistrate who said the police case linking him to the failed car bombings in Britain in June was weak.

    But the 27-year-old Muslim medic, a cousin of the alleged bombers who had always pleaded his innocence, was immediately detained after the immigration minister revoked his visa.

    Through his spokeswoman, Andrews said the decision to revoke Haneef's working visa was entirely unrelated to the emails.

    "It's not our email and it's not something we considered beforehand," she told The Australian.

    Haneef was picked up at a Brisbane airport with a one-way ticket to India in the days following two failed car bombings but the case against him later collapsed for lack of evidence and he returned to India.

    COMMENT:

    The law is that you are innocent till proven guilty. In many systems in Australia (and this includes many health services), if you are an OTD, if there is a disaster, you are first to be blamed. This continues and is across the board from intern to specialist.
  13. Well said

    I think Immigrant doctor has written wisely esp in regards to the tsunami of interns and registrars coming in. So everyone who wants to come to Australia should try to get their AMC exams ASAP!

    The difficulties in remote areas is slightly exaggerated - if you choose carefully, you may may not be tha far away from a regional hospital. You just take leave when you want and when you are not oncall , just leave the town to head to the city!

    Racism and nepotism -- it always lurks underneath..some specialties are like an old boys club. Referees vary widely how they score you - your referee and someelse's referee will have a different view on what a 5 means! (esp if the latter is a favourite for a registrar position)

    Good luck!
  14. OTD

    OTD Guest

    Hospital horrors: media tour ban

    Sydney Morning Heral
    Natasha Wallace
    November 5, 2007 - 11:39AM


    The media has been shut out of a tour today of Royal North Shore Hospital by the parliamentary committee charged with investigating complaints of poor patient care.

    NSW Opposition Leader Barry O'Farrell said it was an "extremely disappointing decision" that had repercussions for transparency.

    "Just as I think it's important for the parliamentary inquiry to be seen to be doing its work openly, that it's important to ensure that the public and interested parties alike know that it's doing its job and, given the enormous controversy surrounding this hospital, media access may well have put at ease some of the fears people have," Mr O'Farrell said.

    "Openness should be the first principle applied throughout the inquiry," he said.

    Committee chairman and Christian Democrat MP Fred Nile said the media would not be permitted to enter the hospital and join the tour due to "patient privacy".

    "We don't want to interfere with the operations of the hospital or the patients and are respecting their privacy so the media won't be accompanying us," the Reverend Nile said.

    "We're going through the whole hospital from top to bottom and particularly visiting areas where patients have been reporting problems - that's the emergency department," he said.

    He said he would be listening to any medical staff or patients who had complaints about patient care or how the hospital is run.

    Since Jana Horska miscarried in an emergency waiting room toilet while waiting for care on September 25, the media have been swamped with accusations by medical staff of severe staff shortages and patients complaining of neglect.

    The Reverend Nile said the committee members would do a walk-through of the hospital at 2.30pm to familiarise themselves with the layout so as not to waste time during the hearing of evidence over three days.

    Submissions to the committee close on Monday. A date has not yet been set for the inquiry.

    Mr O'Farrell said there were ways to balance patient privacy and this had not stopped Premier Morris Iemma before.

    The media were recently invited to tour the maternity section of Westmead Hospital accompanied by Mr Iemma and Health Minister Reba Meagher.

    "I note the same concern for patient privacy doesn't seem to get in the way of either Morris Iemma or Kevin Rudd visiting NSW public hospitals," Mr O'Farrell said.

    COMMENT:

    Overseas Australian grad, welcome to the forum! Could you clarify that you are working overseas or, are you a recent migrant having qualified in Australia.

    It appears that the cover up is on with is report. Also, check this out:

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/oa1974114/sch1.html

    It is clear that the bureaucrats have a mechanism to protect their bums from scrutiny at another level.
  15. OTD

    OTD Guest

    Hospital horrors: media tour ban

    Sydney Morning Herald
    Natasha Wallace
    November 5, 2007 - 11:39AM


    The media has been shut out of a tour today of Royal North Shore Hospital by the parliamentary committee charged with investigating complaints of poor patient care.

    NSW Opposition Leader Barry O'Farrell said it was an "extremely disappointing decision" that had repercussions for transparency.

    "Just as I think it's important for the parliamentary inquiry to be seen to be doing its work openly, that it's important to ensure that the public and interested parties alike know that it's doing its job and, given the enormous controversy surrounding this hospital, media access may well have put at ease some of the fears people have," Mr O'Farrell said.

    "Openness should be the first principle applied throughout the inquiry," he said.

    Committee chairman and Christian Democrat MP Fred Nile said the media would not be permitted to enter the hospital and join the tour due to "patient privacy".

    "We don't want to interfere with the operations of the hospital or the patients and are respecting their privacy so the media won't be accompanying us," the Reverend Nile said.

    "We're going through the whole hospital from top to bottom and particularly visiting areas where patients have been reporting problems - that's the emergency department," he said.

    He said he would be listening to any medical staff or patients who had complaints about patient care or how the hospital is run.

    Since Jana Horska miscarried in an emergency waiting room toilet while waiting for care on September 25, the media have been swamped with accusations by medical staff of severe staff shortages and patients complaining of neglect.

    The Reverend Nile said the committee members would do a walk-through of the hospital at 2.30pm to familiarise themselves with the layout so as not to waste time during the hearing of evidence over three days.

    Submissions to the committee close on Monday. A date has not yet been set for the inquiry.

    Mr O'Farrell said there were ways to balance patient privacy and this had not stopped Premier Morris Iemma before.

    The media were recently invited to tour the maternity section of Westmead Hospital accompanied by Mr Iemma and Health Minister Reba Meagher.

    "I note the same concern for patient privacy doesn't seem to get in the way of either Morris Iemma or Kevin Rudd visiting NSW public hospitals," Mr O'Farrell said.

    COMMENT:

    Overseas Australian grad, welcome to the forum! Could you clarify that you are working overseas or, are you a recent migrant having qualified in Australia.

    It appears that the cover up is on with the revelations in this report. Also, check this out:

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/oa1974114/sch1.html

    It is clear that the bureaucrats have a mechanism to protect their bums from official scrutiny at another level.
  16. juhi458

    juhi458 Guest

    hi everyone...can anyone here pls tell me is house job necessary for the AMC exam? i m asking for both mcq n clinical part? is it thier requirement?
  17. Daffodil

    Daffodil Guest

    I know of a doc(OTD) who was a consultant in one state and was denied to work as a consultant in another state.He worked as smo in the other state for a year before he left for his homeland.
    He had worked in a country town for 3 years as consultant and he found he was underpaid after a year.He got back his denied payment after writing to authorities.
    But he was never ever paid for on-call and re-call duties.He was always given a tough duty roaster compared to the local aussies.
    You pay the price for being an OTD in australia.
    Discrimination is everywhere in this world.It may be overt or covert.But it is there.It's our choice where we want to face it.That's my personal opinion.Any comments?
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hourly rate as RMO

    As a RMO 1 in Public Hospital you will be paid a $29 /per hour !

    The sales assistant in David Jones, Department Store is paid a $21 /per hour.

    Welcome to Australia
  19. i dont think so its that bad in aus it depends how u let them treat u. i had an incidence in which a director said that i can do anything to ur career and i was very stren and said how can u do that and then requested my change of supervisor, reported it to the bullying committee and the matter was resolved but i went through lot of tension no doubt but it was worth doing and since then thigs have been smooth and infact it give motivatiion to other doctors and they also complained and finally the director was changed. So i think we should not sit back if somebody harasses us we have to reply back. We are doctors and they need us no matter wat they say they are in crisis and nobldy will like to lose their workforce, but you have to work hard and prove that u r good in ur profession.
  20. OTD

    OTD Guest

    Iemma sorry over meningococcal death

    Sydney Morning Herald

    December 6, 2007 - 3:54PM


    NSW Premier Morris Iemma has apologised to the family of a young woman who died of meningococcal disease hours after being discouraged by ambulance officers from going to hospital.

    Jehan Nassif, 18, died at Sydney's Bankstown Hospital last August after contracting meningococcal disease from her boyfriend George Khouzame.

    Mr Khouzame's cousin Elias was hospitalised with the disease after they returned from holiday in Greece.

    A NSW coroner found public health guidelines, which did not include identifying and warning secondary contacts such as Ms Nassif, had significantly contributed to her death.

    Deputy State Coroner Dorelle Pinch also criticised ambulance officers who discouraged Ms Nassif from attending hospital hours before she died, saying she was likely only suffering a virus and that there would be a two-hour wait in emergency.

    Opposition health spokeswoman Jillian Skinner used parliamentary question time on Thursday to ask Mr Iemma if he would abide by the families wishes and apologise for Ms Nassif's death.

    Family solicitor Danny Eid said Mr Iemma had refused to apologise to the family in August 2006, pending the outcome of the inquiry.

    But Mr Iemma said he had apologised to the family in at least two radio interviews in August last year and would do so again.

    "It's a very distressing case ... I do take this opportunity to again apologise to the family for this tragedy," the premier told the parliament.

    "A young girl (was) cut down in the prime of her life."

    He said an independent inquiry finalised prior to the end of the inquest had resulted in a number of changes to the treatment of patients presenting with, or suspected of having contracted, meningococcal disease.

    COMMENT:

    Let us reverse the roles: the patient is a white Ozzie and the paramedics/doctors OTDs - there would have been a huge uproar and demand for a Royal Commission. Bullying, of course is ENDEMIC in Australia throughout the workforce, both private and public and, this includes women managers or senior staff bullying men (an increasing trend)
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    thanks for the info, im planing to go australia ....
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Right, do not give up!

    But, read the small print of the Health Insurance Act 1973 (with their amendments), downloadable from the net on search (2 parts of just over 550 kb in each pdf file)

    Unless you are going there to be a second class citizen and slave, to be bullied, likely by women managers and some female nurses (you cannot get PR unless your partner or spouse takes you in, or, if you go in as an investor) of the system, remain in your own country.

    Even if the Rudd government realises the flaws in this Act which has tied everyone up in their knickers, it will have difficult amending it getting it passed the Senate 8)
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Archaic medical training in Australia

    Archaic medical training needs drastic revision
    Dr Tanveer Ahmed
    Psychiatry Registrar

    October 8, 2007
    The Sydney Morning Herald



    The prospect of managing ageing populations, the cost of whizzbang medical technologies and a demanding public is an awesome task. Health is arguably the greatest non-security challenge that Western governments face.

    One key piece of the jigsaw is medical training, a fact acknowledged by the chairman of the State Government's ministerial taskforce to investigate emergency departments, Dr Rod Bishop, who partly blames the crisis on the staffing of departments by locum doctors.

    A locum doctor is a casual doctor who works for an hourly rate. More and more junior doctors are heading into such a lifestyle, attracted to its rates of pay and flexibility. By doing so they opt out of the long path to becoming a specialist.

    Rather than blame junior doctors for wanting to have control of their lives, medical authorities and the Government should examine the real nature of the problem, part of which lies in the archaic conventions of medical training.

    Medical training is one of last bastions of the old world and requires a genuine shake-up. In the past 10 years almost every other sector has faced enormous pressures, resulting from the phenomenal pace of communications development, to perform their tasks faster, cheaper and better simultaneously. Failure to do so quickly resulted in extinction.

    Medical training is not such a sector. It is the East Germany of our society, waiting for its wall to fall.

    It is only in the past year that doctors in training have had a say in the colleges that govern them, after strong recommendations from the Australian Medical Council, which accredits colleges.

    The length of training that graduates face borders on the farcical. If we assume that someone entering university never takes time off, something highly unlikely for this generation, he or she is unable to practise independently for, on average, about 13 years.

    In that time, their friends in other industries have often progressed to senior positions, established themselves financially or experimented with multiple careers. The present batch of young doctors is among the biggest relative losers in the globalisation and economic boom of the past decade, trapped in the public sector with limited mobility.

    In NSW, the wages of training doctors have risen an average of 3 per cent a year since the mid-1990s, barely keeping abreast of inflation. Despite the great power of the profession, their union representation has been poor, relying locally on an ineffective Health Services Union, which represents everybody from hospital cleaners to paramedics.

    While the work of any kind of doctor, especially those practising complex procedures, requires enormous technical expertise, there are few tasks in today's world that require a decade and half to practise independently. Fighter pilots are ready in a fraction of that time. Barristers complete an exam and are deemed ready to start.

    It is only in medicine that each new facet of knowledge is just placed on top of the pyramid of training, so that the pyramid gets higher and higher and is administered by colleges that are not subject to genuine scrutiny or competition. This is despite the fact that the ultimate tasks of modern specialists are exceedingly narrow and usually very repetitive. The modern specialist trains to be a fighter pilot, but spends most of his life riding a bike.

    In my experience, the main gripe from colleagues is the sheer length of time it takes to come out the other side and the terrible working conditions along the way. They feel that training is a euphemism for serving as cheap labour in under-funded public hospitals, especially when they reach a senior level. Only federal MPs have a greater disconnect between their hyper-responsibility and monetary reward.

    The problem is only likely to worsen, considering the number of medical students is set to nearly triple in the next decade, the likely oversupply giving them even less industrial clout.

    The governmental dream is a bottleneck where a host of highly qualified doctors are trapped at the point of becoming a specialist, effectively doing the same work but for a fraction of the pay.
    Some of the country's best and brightest young people are being short-changed by a system that does not value them and places undue demands on their lives. Unfortunately, the arrangement suits many in authority, both within the profession and in government.

    It is high time that competition was introduced in this sector by allowing universities to run training programs alongside colleges. Senior trainees should have the capacity to claim Medicare rebates, perhaps at a reduced rate, considering they are often doing exactly the same work as a specialist.

    This will be a good start to producing a more motivated medical workforce, an absolute prerequisite for the world-class public health system we deserve.

    Dr Tanveer Ahmed is a psychiatric registrar. He is a former Australian Medical Association national representative for doctors in training. These are his personal views.


    This story was found at: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/10/07/1191695738431.html
  24. Aha! The same old story is spewed.....College mafias causing the bottlenecks by inappropriately and deliberately stopping others who are not in the club, whose dads and mums did not belong to the profession, who steadfastly subjugated themselves to the bullying and rituals of the hierachy.

    Yes! It is time to have competition and the Productivity Commission did coughed this idea out several years ago like other past efforts. Again nothing has happened. Mr Abbott did have several fights with the RACS but he is gone. His legacy of setting up alternative pathways to assess specialists is admirable but hopefully does not die with him. The RACP remains a Registered Company limited by guarantee, and the title of Royal being used by permission (note, it was founded on 1 Apr 1938, the date certainly augurs well for its founding and current Fellows)

    But, the real bottle neck, of course is the Health Insurance Act 1973 with its amendments of 1996 and 2005....this virtually stops all OTDs from securing any meaningful position in the system after they have secured their Australian 'letters'.

    This together with the College mafia ensure prosperous survival for the Australian qualified medical profession. Obviously there ain't any fair competition. And, the bang cannot be as good as the buck.

    An ambitious Rudd government needs to shake the system to loosen the nuts and bolts in order that the skeletal remains fall completely apart and are taken out of the closet, displayed openly and then dealt with accordingly.

    Does it want to do it? Is it capable of doing it?
  25. Dtasha

    Dtasha Guest

    OZ- yes or no ?

    Hi there,

    I reside in the middle east & am a recent medical graduate.
    I'm half way done with my internship which ends in april 2008.
    I'm looking for a residency program in either OBG/PAEDS/Dermatology.

    I'm wondering how to go bout with the AMC exam and if/once thats done how do i move further on ?

    A couple of friends have encouraged me bout the place and the hospitals but the little that i've read on this forum questions the idea ive been given. So if someone could enlighten me further, that'd be great.

    And where in australia is the preferred place to be ?

    Thanks

    Dtasha
  26. Dtasha,

    If you choose to come to Oz, you will not be coming here for the primary purpose to fulfill your ambition in speciality training.

    Instead, you will become part of an easily dispensible temporary workforce to do menial doctoring work at unfair rates under unreasonable conditions (if you are unlucky). No one knows which parts of Oz are good as with general understaffing and the inability to fill these posts, things are getting worse by the day.

    If you work in a dysfunctional unit or hospital with third world type managers, do you honestly think you will be able to see your dreams come true? Do you think Michael Schumacher can perform with a 1966 batterred Holden bomb (the Oz word for an old car)? If you do, then proceed.

    Take the VQE and head for the USA or, try Canada....much fairer, though not environmentally more pleasant.
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    hi all
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/12/2117322.htm

    But the Australian Medical Association (AMA) has warned that a proposal to reduce doctor shortages by training physician assistants will compromise patient safety.
    Australian-trained physician assistants could be in the work force within four years, with two universities in Queensland already setting up training programs.

    g
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Same old copy-cat techniques of following the Brits, those who transported them here 3 centuries ago.

    N
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Dear Overseas Trained Doctors,

    Welcome to Australia. Join the cheap medical workforce in Public Hospitals across Australia.

    Are you coming here to work in Private Hospitals or Private Practice ? This is going to be much more difficult as you will not be entitled to Medicare Provider Number for the next 10 years.

    We do not need more doctors in private hospitals.
    We simply need cheap medical workforce to keep our critically ill Public Health system alive.

    Welcome to Australian Public Hospital System.
    We want you.


    [​IMG]
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yes, we want you! And, if things go wrong (or coverups which have been occuring for years get exposed), you will be the first to be blamed

    We want you!

    Come to Australia!
  31. Guest

    Guest Guest

    If you want a good insight into what the (small minority) of more intelligent and considerate Ozzies think about the very large majority of rude uncouth Ozzies (who unfortunately make up the largest portion of our society) then please browse the information and links below.

    Well educated "foreigners" should take a very deep breath before they consider coming to live in australia. Those of you who have studied genetics (and understand Darwinian evolution) and also know a little about Ozzie History from 1788 to 1960, will know the origin and class of the vast majority of our genetic breeding stock.

    For those unacquainted with the history of white settlement in Australia please obtain a copy of Robert Hughes book "The Fatal Shore" Yes the author is an Ozzie !!

    "Australia's first white settlers came ashore from a British prison fleet in Botany Bay in 1788. Before them lay an almost unknown: unexplored, unexploited, and yet to be the scene of the most extraordinary social experiment then imagined - the creation of a prison camp in the South Pacific for an entire criminal class. It was, as this brilliantly written account of the convict transportation system argues, the sketch for the twentieth-century Gulag."

    To see more info about the book "The Fatal Shore" click on these links

    http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/australian/fatalshore.html

    http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Shore-epic-Australias-founding/dp/0394753666


    Most immigrants (even the British) still find the majority of Ozzies to be rude, crude, and socially unattractive people. Alcoholism and violence is rife and the major pre-occupation is with consumerism and hedonistic self-indulgence.

    We probably have the largest proportion of (poorly-educated) working class people of any nation on this planet, whose income (and affluence in terms of purchasing power) is all out of proportion to the size of their IQ.

    You will probably not find it easy to live here long-term unless you have a very thick skin, (preferably white!) can speak fluent English with no accent (other than the unpleasant broad Ozzie accent) and can quickly become accustomed to people being rude to you every second day. Many Ozzies who have left Australia and lived and worked abroad for many years, find great difficulty re-adjusting to life in Australia when they return. Australians have an unfortunate habit of "cutting down tall poppies" unless they happen to be great athletes or sportsmen. Intellectual and artistic excellence is not universally admired or promoted. Australia has always been a country whose economy has essentially depended on farming mining and tourism.

    Here are a few extracts from the link down below. It is a very long article (921 replies) which recently appeared in an Ozzie newspaper.

    Excerpts (written by native born Ozzies)

    "Maybe it has something to do with the origins of our citizens. Lets face it, a lot of us are here thanks to the crimes of our ancestors or from the 10 pound immigrants. Not exactly the cream of the crop. No offense intended, I am also a descendant of one of these.

    We have very little history ourselves (as compared to the world outside Australia) so we are still searching for our own 'culture'. We do not have the benefit yet of the long generations of family with the patriarchs or matriarchs to pull us into order and teach us how to act in public.

    Another major factor in our sullied reputation overseas is the good old aussie tradition of bingeing. We seem to think that we need to be proud of our alcoholic intake and also that we need to share it with anybody that will have a drink with us.

    Why can't we travel overseas just to appreciate what the others have. Yes, we have a fantastic country but we do not have the lengthy history that everybody else has (and we don't seem to want to acknowledge the aboriginal history!). There is so much that the rest of the world has to offer, maybe we can see it without a hangover. And, hopefully our reputation will improve in the newfound soberism"

    Another excerpt

    "I have been traveling for much of my 30 years and from my recent travels, I have come to the conclusion that Australians are gaining a reputation that surpasses the Americans. Even though Americans may have a reputation of being ignorant, loud and obnoxious, at least they tip well and don't go on drunken rampages trying to start a fight. Case in point - I was in Niseko, Japan (the new Bali) during Australia Day earlier this year and witnessed about 50 young Aussies (men and women) in a vicious street brawl in front of one of the local bars. The Japanese are very law abiding so much so that bouncers and police do not exist in town. The fighting did not end until one of the locals drove his car through the crowd. The next day, I was told that there were similar scenes in front of every other pub in town. To heighten my sense of shame, a few days later I witnessed Aussies shoplifting from the locals."

    The full article
    http://blogs.smh.com.au/travel/archives/2007/03/new_yanks_and_jafas_why_no_one.html?page=6#comments
  32. OTD

    OTD Guest

    Well said, RP

    It is all very balanced and true - for those of you who have actually lived and worked in Oz. For those who have aspirations, do come on a temporary visa and try it out: but keep your bridges safe and firm - do not burn them as you will be left high and dry in the desert country with much difficulty to rehab.
  33. Oristle

    Oristle Guest

    Someone on this forum mentioned that OTDs ( overseas trained doctors) who obtained General Registration, after passing AMC exam, are treated as a second class doctors.

    I would not necessarily agree with this. It's really depends of your cultural and etnic background. For instance if you from Italy or Greece, and if you practice near your etnic community than you are first class doctor for your etnic community.
    I believe that many australian-italian or australian-greek will be more happy to visit Dr Luiggi Agnelli or Dr Spiros Mikonos than Dr John Smith. I am not saying that this is a rule but it will probably happen more likely.

    Someone will argue that health care quality is not related to etnic background and I agree with this, but in case of GP or psychiatry for instance, the situation may look very differently. The medicine is cultural thing, too.


    Australia is multicultural country and about 50% of population has Anglo - Saxon background. The rest are Italians, Greeks, former Yugoslavs, French, Lebanese, Germans, Brazilians, Indians, Bangladeshi etc....

    Once you get your Australian passport + General Registration (pass AMC Exam) there is no diference between you and local doctors.
    May I suggest : Pass AMC Exam,get your Provider Number , do your job professionaly with the high standards.

    Do not worry be happy !
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    @ Oristle

    OTDs ARE treated as second class doctors by virtue of Section 19AB of the Health Insurance Act 1973 (with amendments as recent as 2006). This is the law and that is why it was argued that way: by legislation, one is treated that one.

    Interestingly no one has mounted a legal challenge but commentators (Ozzie ones) have admitted that there are lots of dodgy patches in this Act and the amendments! Again, the reference is mentioned somewhere in this forum.
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Section 19AB of the Health Insurance Act 1973 - this applies to anyone overseas ...be they graduates of Australian universities or foreign universities. (But Australians who graduate from overseas universities are not under this section)

    There is a room for this Act to be challenged - anyone game to try? This is clearly unfair. Why not let there be a free market - Isn't better for doctor from overseas work in a place where they have family support! How many doctors have to work in a place separated from their spouse and children as a result of this ruling?
  36. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You are absolutely right. Even if you had grown up in Oz under your parent's work or temporary visa, once you enter an Oz medical school as a non resident and qualify, S19AB applies.

    In the old days, overseas born medical students in Australia are forced to sign a document indicating that they will leave.

    Was that fair? Clearly not.
  37. OTD

    OTD Guest

    s19AB ensures that an overseas born doctor, even qualifying within Australia, will not get a Provider Number for the city.

    It ensures that the regional Oz is flooded with overseas born doctors (even Oz-NZ qualified) and OTDs for the first ten years of their careers. It is not clear whether post grad training years in the city will be counted. The Act is silent on this.

    The law drafters have not thought this over deeply enough.

    See the confusion and the way the knickers have been knotted up?
  38. Graciela

    Graciela Guest

    HEALTH INSURANCE ACT 1973 - SECT 19AB

    The Health Insurance Act 1973 provides that in order to be eligible to render services that attract Medicare benefits, one of the following conditions must apply:

    a/ the person was a medical practitioner before 1 November 1996 (this does not include a medical practitioner who, on or after 1 November 1996, was undertaking a period of internship or a period of supervised training imposed by a state or territory registration authority; or who was not an Australian citizen or permanent resident on 1 November 1996)

    b/ the person is a recognised specialist or consultant physician or is a general practitioner

    c/ the person is in an approved placement authorised by the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners (RACGP), General Practice Education and Training Limited, specialist college or an approved placement under a program specified under section 3GA of the Health Insurance Act 1973

    d/ the person is a temporary resident practitioner (including New Zealand citizens) who has been issued with an exemption under section 19AB of the Health Insurance Act 1973, while working in accordance with that exemption




    This HEALTH INSURANCE ACT 1973 - SECT 19AB has a huge implications for the future training of medical doctors and this particularly affecting the General Practitioners and their training scheme.

    This rule is irrelevant for the Oveseas Trained Doctors who are Fellow of the respective College such as FRACGP, FACS, FACP etc ( after they passed the AMC & College Exams).

    I can not agree with the statement that OTDs are "second" class doctor. Are you suggesting that all overseas born Australians are second class citizens ? Australia is a nation of immigrants in the same sense as the United States which first adopted this self-description. Since 1788 it has been peopled overwhelmingly from overseas and through births to those who came from overseas within the past two hundred years. The great majority of these, about 75 per cent, have been of British or Irish origin. Until 1949 British citizenship ( or more correctly subjecthood to the British Crown) was the only form of citizenship available to Australians who did not wish to remain aliens.

    Today 23% of permanent residents were born overseas and only 55% were born to parents who were also born in Australia - the rest having one or both parents born overseas. Of the 55% hard core of 'native Australians' most cannot trace the mainstream of their local ancestry much further back than the 1880s, though this is less true in the two
    'founding colonies; of New South Wales and Tasmania than it is elsewhere. In contrast to the United States many of the founding families in Australia were of convict origin. Thus less prestige attaches to earlier generations than is true, for example, for the 'first families
    in Virgina'.Despite this, 'being there first' is still relevant in Australia as elsewhere in determining the popular view of the 'real Australian'.

    Do you remember Dr Victor Chang ? Like many famous Australians, Dr Victor Chang was born overseas. For instance Austria has produced a number of great Australians, such as scientist and 'national treasure' Gustav Nossal , architect Harry Seidler and Fred Gruen.



    Cheers

    Graciela
  39. OTD

    OTD Guest

    @Graciela

    " This rule is irrelevant for the Oveseas Trained Doctors who are Fellow of the respective College such as FRACGP, FACS, FACP etc ( after they passed the AMC & College Exams). "

    This is not strictly true. Please quote the section of the Act. I think you need to know of the 2006 amendments which makes it a 'one clause covers all' rule to only have regional provider numbers but with room for discretionary exemptions! BTW, FACS and FACP are US qualifications, not Ozzie ones.

    None of the "Royal" Colleges in Oz have been formed by Royal decree or any special Act of Parliament (like the British Royal Colleges). The use of this is only by assent of the monarch (and this too can be revoked). The Oz entities are all registered Companies limited by guarantee (by the Fellows and Members) and appear to be accountable to no one except the body governing Companies.

    The funniest one is the RACP, whose 'birthday' was 1 Apr 1938


    "I can not agree with the statement that OTDs are "second" class doctor...."

    By virtue of the provisions of this Act all overseas born doctors are de facto second class doctors. An Australian born (presumably Oz citizen or PR at the time of entry into medical school) has the choice of working in the city or the region when he or she qualifies. An overseas born doctor (who enters even an Oz-NZ medical school without PR or citizenship)does not enjoy this right per se

    This existence of this "choice" is made apparently equal to that of the Australian born doctor by only by a discretionary clause which may be granted or revoked at will by the (Commonwealth) Minister. of Health and Ageing.

    Does this mean that the Act not treat overseas born doctors (whether they qualify from Oz or not with a primary degree) as second class doctors? I doubt it.

    Please present your arguments accurately:

    1. Dr Victor Chang was killed by an extortionist, a fellow Chinese, in 1991 before the amendments to the Act came into force (1997)

    2. Your other examples of luminaries who were overseas born were pre 1997.

    Can you quote some names eminent post-1997 overseas born/qualified medical specialists in Oz? Even Thomas Kossmann got hit! I am sure the rest are also being discriminated against in other ways.

    When Mr Rudd finally comes to it, I believe Australia also needs to say 'sorry' to the overseas born doctors.

    The moral of the story: get your PR or citizenship up front as soon as possible, preferably before you commence medical school 8)
  40. Gabriela

    Gabriela Guest

    Dear OTD,

    The Medicine is science invented before 1997 and Health Insurance Act.
    My personal experience is completelly different. I came to Australia from India in 1988 and since then I've passed AMC and College exams. I became the citizen of this beautiful country throught the marriage in 2001.
    Due to Health Act 19B regulation I finished the rural GP pathway. I 've got my letter ( RACGP - Royal Australian College of General Practitioners ) and unrestricted Medicare Provider Number in 2004.
    If you recognised specialist under the meaning of Health Insurance Act 1973 ( member of relevant Royal Australian College) you are eligible to render services that attract Medicare benefits.


    I am running my own surgery in busy central Melbourne district and I really do not care what minority of "simple" australians think about OTDs. I treat my patients professionally and with the respect and they are paying for my service accordingly. I have many loyal clients all coming from the different backgrounds and different education levels.

    In every teaching hospital in Australia you'll find at least a few eminent overseas born/qualified medical specialists. Go and do research.
    Dr Victor Chang (Yam Him) was born in Shanghai of Chinese parents. He came to Australia in 1953.Professor Frazer and Dr Jian Zhou made a discovery at UQ more than 15 years ago that has led to the development of a vaccine for cervical cancer. The vaccine, known as Gardasilâ„¢ and Cervarixâ„¢, became available in the developed world in mid-2006. Ian Frazer was trained as a renal physician and clinical immunologist in Edinburgh, Scotland before emigrating in 1980 to Melbourne

    http://www.uq.edu.au/uqresearchers/researcher/frazerih.html
  41. Gabriela

    Gabriela Guest

    I came to Australia in 1998 ( not 1988) - typographical error.
  42. OTD

    OTD Guest

    @Gabriella

    That is very good. Read the fine print of the voluminous Act. Given the information you have imparted, you had obtained a discretionary exemption - unless you have done your regional 10 years. You are sailing smoothly at the present time. If, for whatever reason, some 'simple' (say sly or wicked) Australians wish to 'fix' you, your discretionary exemption (if it exists) can be revoked (you are post 1997). I am very happy for you for the moment and you should keep continue to keep yourself off the radar screen.

    The essence of this discussion is not experiential, as you have kindly steered it.

    It is on a legal point and on the challenges caused by a crippling Commonwealth Act, which with its cumulative amendments has the potential to cause grief to thousands of doctors who had been born overseas.

    The message is clear: protectionism refined - it is clear that the power some members of the Australian medical profession may have in orchestrating this may continue to flourish.

    Even Mr Rudd's kind approach may be thwarted by this Act - as amendments may well be blocked by the Upper House. They had already warned him before the elections.

    In summary, the uncertainty and flaws of this Act will continue.

    I have nothing personal against you. I think all OTDs (and indeed interested Australians who browse this should know about what their own medical profession had lobbied the Howard government to amend to their detriment)
  43. Gabriela

    Gabriela Guest

    OTD,

    What I am trying to explain is that once once you secure your Fellowship, Residency and Medicare Provider number you do not need to worry about HealthCare Insurance act 19B. My best friend who is a consultant physician ( FRACP) came here in 1999 . He passed all exams including an AMC and he works in own private practice in Sydney. He indeed spent a 1 year in rural area during his training.

    If you came to Australia after the 01/01/1997 you are eligible to get the Medicare Provider Number if you pass AMC & relevant college Exam and become fellow of respective College. (FRACS, FRACP, FACEM, FRANZCP etc). Of course I assume that you have at least permanent residency/ Citizenship. Correct me if I am wrong.

    I appreciate an opportunity this country gave me since I landed here. However with this Competent Authority Model things will become messy. I guess that obtaining a training post for home-grown graduates will be difficult , at least difficult as is in UK right now.
  44. Gabriela

    Gabriela Guest

    OTD,

    You know that doctors lived here before Medicare was introduced. They've charged their services through Private Health Insurance or cash. The same way we are paying plumbers, dentists or lawyers.

    I guess it is not going to be the end of the word for consumers ( patients) or service providers ( doctors & nurses & paramedics ) even if Medicare is scrapped. For example, most Americans (59.7%), receive their health insurance coverage through an employer, although this percentage is declining.The US government subsidizes employer-paid health care by exempting employer contributions from taxation as income.

    The doctors can survive without Medicare, I am sure, but politicians - no way.

    Gabriela
  45. OTD

    OTD Guest

    I agree with you Gabriela,

    But, for the moment it is Medicare! Reforms will be slow. Are people willing to take the risk by going fully private and not applying for a Medicare Provider number? I really doubt it.

    Your idea is quite good. If there is an alternative funding system independent of Medicare, driven by the private insurance sector, this would bypass many serious issues!

    Let us discuss!
  46. Paracetamol

    Paracetamol Guest

    First, let us clarify the government's role in healthcare; is it charity or is it something we share?
  47. Gorry

    Gorry Guest

    Government support for private health insurance

    The first area where Medicare appears vulnerable relates to the government’s support for private health insurance (PHI).
    There is evidence of the meltdown of Medicare as GPs reduce their rates of bulk billing.For GP services only, the decline in bulk-billing rates has been somewhat more pronounced, from a high of nearly 80% in 1996-97 to 74.1% in 2001-02. The latest figures, for the quarter ending September 2007, show that bulk billing has fallen to 63.2%.

    Caring for a longer-living elderly population will substantially increase the burden Medicare imposes on younger generations.While the baby boomer generation is retiring on tax-free superannuation and negatively-geared property, over-taxed and debt-ridden Gen Y and Gen X are still being expected to supply ageing 'boomers' with health care of a far superior quality and quantity – and to pay higher taxes boomers had to pay to care for elderly people. This is as unfair as it is unrealistic.

    The Goverment may be drawn to Private health Insurance model because the expenses are off their books, as it were.

    Serious discussion of alternative policies is long overdue.
  48. Super Mario

    Super Mario Guest

    Sorry I didn't get you. :?
  49. vdoc

    vdoc Guest

    query

    hi ijust went thru the detailed info about amc & the buereocracy in it
    thanks a lot for the info, & it is making me think twice before cming
    so pls reply soon
    about the possibility of post gradation ins usrgery or cardio in ozz
    & can i work there after i finish my step 1 ie MCQs section
    would be really greatfull
  50. Iggy

    Iggy Guest

    Planning and Funding Needed To Avoid Medical Training Bottle

    http://www.ama.com.au/web.nsf/doc/WEEN-7C9747

    Date released:
    28 February 2008

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